Oldest dated coin in your collection?

引用する: "German_empire5_mark_fan!"No ancients only coins with an exact date!

引用する: "hakkinen"​ https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/marc_breitsprecher_classical_numismatist/8/product/thrace_maroneia_19815__prancing_horse/907850/Default.aspx.
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​Should be this one. I guess it's the same as this coin. They look very similar.
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引用する: "Cycnos"​

引用する: "German_empire5_mark_fan!"No ancients only coins with an exact date!

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​Ancient coins have exact date on them too : they just used different calendars
​That being said, do you only want coins minted in the Anno Domini dating system (Julian and Gregorian calendars) or can we extend that to the other calendars still in use today, like the Hijri dates written on the coins minted in muslim countries ?

引用する: "arpad"​
​The ID for this coin is IV- 21a.
​Happy 550th Birthday
​Neat idea @Moneytane
​
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​

Oldest of mine with a readable date

This was the first year of dated Sixpences of Elizabeth I, the coins are dated through to at least 1601 for her and then 1624 for James I.

So my 2nd oldest is just a year later! 3rd oldest a 3d that is 2 years later!

It's funny that I have nothing dated until then and then there are several all at once. I have 1568, 1571, 72, 74, 77, 81, 82, 87, 90 etc.

You see readable dates by the late 1400s, but the numerals like 4 and 7 still look Arabicy style and its only in the 1500 the numbers look like today (None of those coins should strike any difficulty to anyone looking at a modern western numeral coin).

Oldest that can be securely dated to a few years

Although not clear, there is a type of cross on the outer band that indicates the coin can only date between 1354 and 1356 (Edward III Groat, type D).

WOW!! After 5 years this thread was resurected. And done

with some really top notch pieces. I keep adding to my

collection, over 350 different per Bob Levinson's book.

I now have two or three of each of the Very Early Aachen

pieces. Even doubled up on some of the early (1436+) gold.

Yes, a good topic, well worth revisiting.

In the intervening years I have added some coins from the Italian states.

The oldest one is this Tornese from the Kingdom of Naples, clearly dated 1614.

This is Naples KM#4 . Doesn't appear to be in Numista.

Sorry about the thread necropsy - I thought an “oldest dated coin” thread was due and found this one and thought many people who posted on it are still here and may have found some older dated coins in the mean time and they can compare them.

Hence here it is again.

The joy of Numista, is you can go back through old threads and even revive them, if they have not been closed for a myriad of reasons.

No need to apologize. Lots of good stuff. 

Here is mine. It's N#81153 dated 95 AH, which equals 713/714 AD.

My oldest non ancient is this Russian kopek: 

N#186034

My oldest milled is this piece: 

N#161456

And my oldest overall (barring one piece that I'm relatively sure is a cast forgery) is this: 

N#249426

Rajbarage

My oldest non ancient is this Russian kopek: 

N#186034

 

And my oldest overall (barring one piece that I'm relatively sure is a cast forgery) is this: 

N#249426

 

Are you sure these are dated?

Let's go waaaay back, but I think I can go back further…

Western Kshatrapas: Damasena b. Rudrasimha (223-236 CE) AR Drachm, SE154 (Pieper 848)

Its dated SE154 (behind the bust) which is equivalent to 232 CE…

It’s crazy that most of you people have such old coins while the oldest coin I ever had was an 1831 U.S. penny

Even older….

Macedonian Kingdom: Antigonos I Monophthalmos, as Strategos of Asia (320-306/5 BCE) AR Tetradrachm, Tyre (Price 3298; DCA 736) Obv: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion's skin headdress
Rev: AΛEΞANΔPOY; Zeus Aëtophoros seated left; in left field, 𐤏𐤊 (Phoenician King’s name) and 𐤛𐤛𐤚 (Phoenician Year 8, in two lines)

Even older…

Ok, younger than the tetradrachm above, but older than the rest:

Phoenicia, city of Arados - N#89679 

Bought it 3 months ago. I've added it to the examples on the catalog page.

It have the date 117 below the galley.

The Aradian year 117 in our calendar is year 143/142 BC.

The original poster said no ancients, but I don't know if he's aware of ancients with written date (from their own calendars of course).

Well, if I put my Arados aside my oldest dated coin would be this 1569 Elizabeth I threepence:

…Technically it would be one of my half dozen islamic medievals, but they're too worn or date unreadable/off-border or both.

…And back to the tetradrachm, I can't enlarge the photo. The photo of the kshatrapa coin works fine.

And also, good to see you back on the forum. You never fail to amaze me with your ancients and your knowledge on them.

ngdawa

Rajbarage

My oldest non ancient is this Russian kopek: 

N#186034

 

And my oldest overall (barring one piece that I'm relatively sure is a cast forgery) is this: 

N#249426

 

Are you sure these are dated?

First one, not entirely, but I believe the date was deduced. Second one, yes, 1765, and third one yes as well. 

Quant-Geek

Let's go waaaay back, but I think I can go back further…

 

 

Western Kshatrapas: Damasena b. Rudrasimha (223-236 CE) AR Drachm, SE154 (Pieper 848)

 

Its dated SE154 (behind the bust) which is equivalent to 232 CE…

 

 

One on my wishlist, a beautiful piece! A few recently sold at the SARC Auction last month. 

Pluto2181930

It’s crazy that most of you people have such old coins while the oldest coin I ever had was an 1831 U.S. penny

If its any consolation, I only acquired my first pre-1800 coin last March, so a bit less than a year ago. I have five ancients (two unidentified + one likely counterfeit aside) and two Russian kopecks, and the Half thaler. So it is very much possible to start building up (especially if I can do it with the occasional purchase on a student's budget).  If you do want to get started, a good place may be Ancient Roman Bronzes, plentiful, fun and affordable. My first was this one: 

N#51922 (X (Head K, stag left))

Any wire money of Peter the Great will be 1700 or earlier as he did away with it that year and started issuing European style larger coins.

If anyone could date and identify this for me, I am sure it would count as my oldest dated coin.

1556

N#454657

Moneytane

 

   

If anyone could date and identify this for me, I am sure it would count as my oldest dated coin.

This coin is from the Abbassid Caliphate.

ngdawa

Moneytane

 

   

If anyone could date and identify this for me, I am sure it would count as my oldest dated coin.

This coin is from the Abbassid Caliphate.

Thanks, but that does not date it. When was the Abbasid Caliphate - I can't read or understand medieval Kufic/Arabic.

Main questions 1. Does this coin actually have a date or range (Say ruler) and 2. Is it older than 1561, my oldest dated coin?

Islamic states › Abbasid Caliphate • Dinar (750-1517)

so yes to the first,  but mostly no to date. 

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?r=Abbasid+Caliphate&st=147&cat=y&im1=&im2=&ru=&ie=&ca=3&no=&v=&a=&dg=&i=&b=&m=&f=&t=&t2=&w=&mt=&u=&g=&se=&c=&wi=&sw=&p=3

looks like an image search would nail it down.

I tried by looking at all of those coins, but still can't solidly date or name it as the outside text is nearly flat and the rest is really flat and mostly long lines.

I can work out all the language exalting about Allah though (Universal on early Islamic coins), and it looks closest to earlier coins of the late 700s and early 800s - so that is pretty amazing.

But thanks for your help Mr Midnight and Ngdawa!

If we limit it to medieval and modern (any coin after the fall of the Western Roman Empire at the 5th century), then we can see the numerous, dated Byzantine, Islamic, and Sasanian coins:

Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Constantinople, RY 13 (Sear 163; DOC 38b; MIBE 95a)

Obv: D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG; Helmeted and cuirassed bust facing, holding globus cruciger and shield; cross to right
Rev: Large M; date across field, cross above, B below; CON in exergue
Dim: 37mm, 22.61 g, 12h

Umayyad Caliphate: 'Umar bin 'Abd al-'Aziz Dirham, Dimashq Mint, AH100 (Album-133)

Sasanian Empire: Khosrau I (531-579 CE) AR Drachm, Kirmān Mint, 554 AD (Göbl Type II/2)

@Quant-Geek  Not as nice as yours, but a year older.

Moneytane

ngdawa

Moneytane

 

   

If anyone could date and identify this for me, I am sure it would count as my oldest dated coin.

This coin is from the Abbassid Caliphate.

Thanks, but that does not date it. When was the Abbasid Caliphate - I can't read or understand medieval Kufic/Arabic.

Main questions 1. Does this coin actually have a date or range (Say ruler) and 2. Is it older than 1561, my oldest dated coin?

I couldn't find the exact one, that's why I didn't send a link. I just did some quick searching on the web, and K believe your is Abbasid Caliphate, al-Rashid, Dirham, Muham. The one I dound that looked exactly like yours was dated AH 182 (= 797/798 AD), but I don't know about yours.

ngdawa

Moneytane

ngdawa

Moneytane

 

   

If anyone could date and identify this for me, I am sure it would count as my oldest dated coin.

This coin is from the Abbassid Caliphate.

Thanks, but that does not date it. When was the Abbasid Caliphate - I can't read or understand medieval Kufic/Arabic.

Main questions 1. Does this coin actually have a date or range (Say ruler) and 2. Is it older than 1561, my oldest dated coin?

I couldn't find the exact one, that's why I didn't send a link. I just did some quick searching on the web, and K believe your is Abbasid Caliphate, al-Rashid, Dirham, Muham. The one I dound that looked exactly like yours was dated AH 182 (= 797/798 AD), but I don't know about yours.

Thanks, that was the one it looked closest too, the outer rings of lettering are very worn on mine and I suspect it was a late 8th or early 9th century coin minted in Iraq and thought I could read the date 176 or 182 or at least 100 and something - using my understanding of much later numerals on 18th and 19th century Ottoman coins. If it is 1200 years old, thats amazing!

Yes it is. Very interesting subject. I have some Ottoman, modern middle eastern ccoins, but nothing  yet from the earlier Islamic empires.

The Arab world was 600 years ahead of the west in art, science, math, engineering, and seemingly coin minting as well.

arpad

@Quant-Geek  Not as nice as yours, but a year older.

Touché, but very nice indeed!

@Quant-Geek It took me 6 months to figure out that regnal year 12 was actually the the 1st year for financial reform. 

Some 1808 Shipwreck coin from a pawn shop is my oldest. I got it about 5+ years ago so I believe that it’s my eldest coin.  

arpad

@Quant-Geek It took me 6 months to figure out that regnal year 12 was actually the the 1st year for financial reform. 

To add a little more history, Justinian caught the plague around this time and the die cutters added some additional changes to his appearance on the coins. His face became bloated for a few years and then returns back to normal. Here is an example of one of these coins:

Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Constantinople, RY 16 (Sear 163; DOC 38b; MIBE 95a)

Obv: D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG; Helmeted and cuirassed bust facing, holding globus cruciger and shield; cross to right
Rev: Large M; date across field, cross above, A below; CON in exergue

This particular coin is the so-called Plague Coin of Justinian. It depicts a deformed face of Justinian when he was recovering from the plague. See the following reference paper for more information:

Pottier, H., L'empereur Justinien survivant à la peste bubonique (542), Mélanges Cécile Morrisson, Paris, 2010, p. 685-691

Quant-Geek

arpad

@Quant-Geek It took me 6 months to figure out that regnal year 12 was actually the the 1st year for financial reform. 

To add a little more history, Justinian caught the plague around this time and the die cutters added some additional changes to his appearance on the coins. His face became bloated for a few years and then returns back to normal. Here is an example of one of these coins:

 

 

Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Constantinople, RY 16 (Sear 163; DOC 38b; MIBE 95a)

 

Obv: D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG; Helmeted and cuirassed bust facing, holding globus cruciger and shield; cross to right
Rev: Large M; date across field, cross above, A below; CON in exergue

This particular coin is the so-called Plague Coin of Justinian. It depicts a deformed face of Justinian when he was recovering from the plague. See the following reference paper for more information:

Pottier, H., L'empereur Justinien survivant à la peste bubonique (542), Mélanges Cécile Morrisson, Paris, 2010, p. 685-691

 

That would be 541 - 549, the Justinian plague that nearly killed the entire western world's population, over 50% of all Europeans died and the disease was worse that the Black Death of 1346 to 1354 and a Antoine plague around 155AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian - Wikipedia link in English (I and many other don't speak French)

Covid would not even be a drop in the bucket and neither would the 1918 Influenza outbreak (The term Spanish influenza is racist, the plague started in the midwestern USA not Spain).

Although the article suggests these figures may have been exaggerated. Human society in the west was too basic at the time for statistics of accuracy, it could have been done in Roman times, but Europe had descended into barbarism and cultures more akin to 1500 or 500BC took over. Justinian is lorded as a great emperor, but in reality he was awful, he was arrogant and self obsessed. 

Moneytane

Quant-Geek

arpad

@Quant-Geek It took me 6 months to figure out that regnal year 12 was actually the the 1st year for financial reform. 

To add a little more history, Justinian caught the plague around this time and the die cutters added some additional changes to his appearance on the coins. His face became bloated for a few years and then returns back to normal. Here is an example of one of these coins:

 

 

Byzantine Empire: Justinian I (527-565) Æ Follis, Constantinople, RY 16 (Sear 163; DOC 38b; MIBE 95a)

 

Obv: D N IVSTINIANVS P P AVG; Helmeted and cuirassed bust facing, holding globus cruciger and shield; cross to right
Rev: Large M; date across field, cross above, A below; CON in exergue

This particular coin is the so-called Plague Coin of Justinian. It depicts a deformed face of Justinian when he was recovering from the plague. See the following reference paper for more information:

Pottier, H., L'empereur Justinien survivant à la peste bubonique (542), Mélanges Cécile Morrisson, Paris, 2010, p. 685-691

 

That would be 541 - 549, the Justinian plague that nearly killed the entire western world's population, over 50% of all Europeans died and the disease was worse that the Black Death of 1346 to 1354 and a Antoine plague around 155AD.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian - Wikipedia link in English (I and many other don't speak French)

 

Covid would not even be a drop in the bucket and neither would the 1918 Influenza outbreak (The term Spanish influenza is racist, the plague started in the midwestern USA not Spain).

 

Although the article suggests these figures may have been exaggerated. Human society in the west was too basic at the time for statistics of accuracy, it could have been done in Roman times, but Europe had descended into barbarism and cultures more akin to 1500 or 500BC took over. Justinian is lorded as a great emperor, but in reality he was awful, he was arrogant and self obsessed. he preached abstinence and destroyed toleration of Gays and any religion other than christianity, anything open minded about Classical Civilisation was quashed and he took Europe towards the horrible and backwards Christian dominated middle ages.

 

Justinian also preached conservative Christian hatred, yet was married to a stripper and court prostitute - Theodosia.

He was the Trump, Putin, Jinping of his time.

 

The rot started earlier as Christianity and its odious dogma poisoned the Roman empire. You may notice how high quality classical statues and arts gave way to crude stylised art around 300 - 350AD, coincided with the rise of christianity. Anything artful or creative was stamped out and not until the Renaissance would humanity even begin to approach the high standards of classical civilisation.

 

These coins show the crude stylised art of this era, compared to say the well drawn portraits of Ancient Greece, Hellenistic empires and Rome before 238AD.

What an objective and hateless analysis, Moneytane. I'm sure you lack an agenda and treat different periods of history with the grace properly afforded to them with historical context. 

Also, Lol: 

Yes on reflection I felt it was too extreme and deleted big chunks of it.

This is one of my Early Dated pieces using a regnal date.

Gordian III  Year 3  (241/2  A.D.)

@ arpad, good research for the earliest dated coin, some time ago i did a similar google search, which gave me a danish coin dated 1234 as result.

My oldest is a taler 1548, german states, a variant of N#188537