Describing coins

From what I understand, the value of the coin should be given first; then the monarch or sovereign's title (if applicable), separated by a hyphen; and finally, variations or details in brackets.  However I am confused as to your guideline for describing commemoratives and coins from different series.

~"If it's a commemorative issue, tell in short who or what is commemorated, starting with an upper case. Separate it from the facial value with an hyphen."  "If this is the case, ignore the next two items."

May a commemorated event be simply put in brackets (or perhaps after a tilde~)?  Many of the entries I observe still have the monarch's title in addition to the commemorated event.  I think it ought to be that way.

~"If there are several pages due to variations, it may be of interest to specify it in short in the brackets."

Would it be better if coins from different series were described as such: 20 Cents (Marine); or 50 cents - Floral?  Or would the years in which the series was minted suffice?  (Also, I don't think Singapore's former coins were demonetised.)  

On an ending note, Canadian dollars prior to 1987 were called "Voyageurs"; the present coin in use is popularly known as the "Loonie"

Hey Titus,

I noticed your requests. I accidentially accepted one of them.

Thing is, we can't consider a "series" a commemorated event. A commemoration is like an event or person, where there is a given amout of years. Or like Olympics. Or a person who was born a hundred years ago or died a million.

However, series aren't really commemoratives. I'll have to check out the coins. I forgot which country though...

Oh wait. Singapore.

And umm if it has a name specific to the coin, like the "Jefferson Nickel" from US, the "Bamboo Dollar" from China or the "Weeping Portrait" from Russia, the name is in quotes after the value.

Maybe they are. Let's think about it - other catalogs list coins differently.
Example: 2 Deutsche Mark coins - they commemorated the anniversary of existence of the federal republic of germany.
each depicting a politician greatly involved in forming the country. It was a series - each coin
circulating, too. but still: commemoratives. so what is to do about coins like these?
Information like this is listed in the german schön and schön catalogs, not in WC where it only has
the "subject" name of the depicted politician.

This is what I think,

A commemorative is about an event. It's ridiculous to see coins that have a butterfly or a boat or simply some random subject that is considered a commemorative. In a way, it is, but it really isn't.

If there is a given number of years the subject exists, or if it's like an Expo or Olympics, it makes sense. Just a random person with simply a title and no relevance to a number of years, it shouldn't be "commemorative."

commemorative coins are not only showing "events". mostly yes - but have a look
at coins depicting locations or persons - often connected to an event - like birthday, anniversary of
death, the day that person had its personal breakthrough - whatever, founding of a city - you name it.
there are lots of possibilities. however - lots of them are not listed in the WC catalogs if you take this
as reference.
and there are those that are strictly speaking commemoratives since they have no meaning as
circulating coinage whatsoever - struck in silver material for collectors' fancy only.
If you translate "commemorative" - you're absolutely right. maybe they are non-circulating
collectors coinage and some are "commemorating an event". so that would mean the phrase
"commemorative" as checkbox should be replaced?
I think especially about coinage from pacific islands and east europe / asian countries. examples?
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/palaos-1.html and
and coins like this one
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces12704.html or this one
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces5941.html

these are no commemoratives then? I would disagree. what to do with them?

what about 2 Euro coins? There are the normal issues with the usual designs, and then there are "commemorative" issues, with all kinds of different designs. Some are about anniversaries, others about current events, others are annual series with designs from German Länder or Spanish buildings. But all these should be marked with the same checkbox.

By the way, there was a discussion with the result that all these 2 euro coins should be marked "circulating", while all the 1/4, 1 1/2, 3, 5 and higher value commemorative euro coins should be marked as non-circulating. I think there should be an exception for Vatican, San Marino and Monaco, these countries' 2 euro coins should be marked as non-circulating

First of all,

Androl, you should be part of the Team after verifying countless requests of yours. They are very neat.

Now, commemoratives aren't really like the ones from Palau. Is "sealife" a commemorating event? Not really. What is there to commemorate? It's simply a design of a mermaid on one side, and a colourized design on the other. No person to discuss, no event. I see where Makake is going, but in some areas, it doesn't make sense.

Vatican, San Marino, and Monaco issue Euro coins although not part of the EU. They could be considered "non-circulating" unless one ends up in your pocket change.

Just to let you know that 2 euro from Monaco DO circulate, I found one at the very begining of euro. Just they often do not circulate because people keep it... that s all... but some like 10c San Marino do not circulate, other do, Vaticano for this year only 50c circulate, no other this year (we know it as we visited those countries this year and we got coins those coins in ciruclation and we've been asking to banks)... no "rule" that is why the team decided to say that all "usual" coins are considered as circulating other are not. That is a reference for numista and that is not a true rule.
By the way, of course Vaticano, San Marino and Monaco are included in the UE !!!! (so as other countries that do not have euro as money...)

yes, the Vatican 50 cents 2010 and 2011 are made for circulation, the ECB told the Vatican that it should not only make coins for collectors. But I don't think any 2 Euro commemorative coins (Grace Kelly, World Youth Day, Borghesi) will be found in circulation, they were only issued in folders. This year's coin from Monaco could be the first "circulation" coin, there are only 59,820 + 7000 folders, while 81,057 coins are issued without folder (http://www.euro-auflagen.de/)

What I meant about naming series is this: Are coins from different (regular circulating) series to be differentiated only by the years in which they were issued?  Or would putting a name in brackets be better.  (Perhaps my naming it in brackets lead you to think it is a commemorative.)

I see what you're saying, Titus,

But we don't function on series. Are you a stamp collector? Stamps almost always function on either series, definitives, airmail, or general issues. We can't organize the whole entire Numista by series because, first of all it is more than time consuming, and second of all it's not very important.

If we did transition to series, which we probably wouldn't, we would indeed have it in brackets.
* " " is for popular names, such as "Toonie", "Voyager Dollar", "Bob"
* - is for leader, such as 1 Penny - George VI
* ( ) is for commemorative or variant, such as 1 Cent (zinc); 3 Pence - Elizabeth II (1st portrait; Jubilee)

Although not essential, having a description added to different types/series of coins of the same denomination could make them easier to identify.  This need not be applied to every country as many already have the name of a monarch or sovereign while others have the coin's nickname.  I thought if countries without a sovereign could have another way to differentiate between types.  In the case of Hong Kong, I see "Bauhinia" is included in the title, even though it is neither a sovereign nor commemorative.

In the case of commemoratives, may whatever or whoever is commemorated be put in brackets, along with the monarch's title or initials, instead of after a dash(-)?  
(FYI: Though officially not a circulating issue, some of the Montreal Olympics coins were released by banks unencapsulated at face value.)

Here's the reason for my modification request of "25 Cents - Elizabeth II (2nd portrait; R.C.M.P. Centennial)":
This coin commemorates the 100th anniversary - or "centennial" - of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, not the police force itself.

I don't really collect stamps any more, but I do inherit a collection of banknotes which I expanding.

Hey again, Titus,

I see where you're going. Although it would look slightly nicer, I think it is best to stick with what we have. Coins with a common name should be in " " while others should not.

Monarchs should be respected, no matter how horrible or friendly they are. Additionally, it is also a good indicator. In the search box, people can search "Elizabeth II" and they'll find coins with her portrait. I don't think people would search "Bauhina."

The dash should respect the monarch to differenicate them from the commemorative. The brackets represent commemoratives and non-commemoratives not meant for circulation.

I see what you're saying. We don't put the years in which the subject is commemorated. The title would be too long. Instead, we put the number of years in the Commemorative box. Please don't make this a hassle.

I appreciate your requests, however. And you should start collecting stamps again. They are fun.

Hello SmartOneKg,

My suggestions were based upon the perceived differences between this guideline and what you said, as well as examples from the catalogue.  We pretty much agree with each other regarding commemoratives. However, I think the guideline should be changed in the light of what you said

引用する: Guidelines for editing

• If it's a commemorative issue, tell in short who or what is commemorated, starting with an upper case. Separate it from the facial value with an hyphen.
  
• If this is the case, ignore the next two items.
  
  
• If a monogram or a sovereign portrait shows on the coin, give the name in English. Separate it from the facial value with an hyphen.
  
• If various portraits of the same sovereign were used across the years, specify in brackets the portrait number (1st, 2nd, 3rd…).
  

Separate it from the facial value with an hyphen: I think brackets would be better.  Almost all of the examples I observe have it this way (in brackets).

引用する: titus17May a commemorated event be simply put in brackets... instead of after a dash(-)?

引用する: SmartOneKgThe brackets represent commemoratives and uncirculating non-commemoratives.

ignore the next two items: I don't think they should be ignored

引用する: titus17In the case of commemoratives, may whatever or whoever is commemorated be put in brackets, along with the monarch's title or initials, instead of after a dash(-)?

(I didn't mean to have the Queen's name in the brackets but outside, along with the event or person commemorated in the brackets) i.e. 1 Dollar - Elizabeth II (Navy Centennial)

引用する: SmartOneKgMonarchs should be respected, no matter how horrible or friendly they are. Additionally, it is also a good indicator. In the search box, people can search "Elizabeth II" and they'll find coins with her portrait.

Thanks for taking the time in discussing and reviewing my edits.  My stamp collection is still in a mess but I might get to organizing it someday (when I have the time).

Actually the guidelines are not up to date concerning the "brackets" thing.
We discussed that a while ago and came to the conclucion that it would be ok
to have - at least for the english version, the french is different if format -
brackets used when describing a commemorated event / subject in the title.
As long as it is not too long in size since some coins need a variety, portrait type listed in the title, too.
An example:
2 Pounds - Elizabeth II (2nd portrait; Anniversary of Reign; small coat of Arms)
would be something that is used commonly when having Elizabeth's second portrait type shown on
obverse and different varieties listed that are either very different or got a different KM# from Krause
Mishler (WC catalogs).
WC catalogs normally list their coins according to varieties - then subdivided into something like KM#1.1
and KM#1.2 etc. entries; or according to metal types/changes - then subdivided into something like
KM#1a. But there are also mixed entries when varieties meet metal changes like KM#1a.1.
Since Numista does not list every KM#x.y subdivision but rather provides the opportunity to
list them in the coin sheet's comments there sometimes has to be means to distinguish coins when
varieties are too different (very small and very large coin size for example) or WC catalogs gave very
similar coins a different KM# so that we had to write something like "large coat of arms" and
"small coat of arms" into the title so that users find their coin more easily.

I hope I did not go too far / astray. All I wanted to say is that we had to find a balance between
readability (thus having only a shortened "version" of the commemorated event written in brackets
in the title) and ability to find that coin easily with the search engine - thus having to provide some
information that would trigger search results.

as Smartone already put it

引用するMonarchs should be respected, no matter how horrible or friendly they are. Additionally, it is also a good indicator. In the search box, people can search "Elizabeth II" and they'll find coins with her portrait.

Readability is also important since there is a mobile version of Numista for use on smartphones.
Very long titles would make it tedious to use this on mobiles.

So I absolutely agree on having events written in brackets - since this generates a consistent and clean
look and visually "shortens" the size displayed since lettering in brackets gets a smaller font in the
coin's sheet.

Thank you Makake,

Your explanation is very clear and yes, we need to update the ancient guidelines.

Again, the name for commemoratives and non-circulating "topic" coinage (such as a car or picture with no relevance to numbers of years) should be written without the number of years, such as Centennial or 100th Anniversary of... These should be in the commemorative writing box instead.

So uhh yeah. I can help you organize your stamps, Titus, as my collection of stamps is now larger than my collection of coins. Much cheaper too. Even for unused stamps.

in British coins, we have always the "2nd portrait" or such included in the brackets, even when it is not necessary. That could be good for using the search.
Should we do the same with the 1st and 2nd map types of the euro coins?
At the moment, Cyprus and Slovakia have no brackets, while Estonia, Slovenia and Malta have brackets "2nd map". And the Monaco 1 and 2 euro coins with Rainier don't have brackets "1st map", while the coins with Albert have 1st or 2nd map. And the cent coins from Monaco all have brackets with type and map, which makes Monaco a bit inconsequent