These two coins are listed under the "Soviet Union" in Numista. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces4624.html https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces15908.html
But they don't read "CCCP" (USSR) - they read "РСФСР" (RSFSR - Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic). They were made before the Soviet Union was created as a union between Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Transcaucasia in 1922.
Shouldn't they be moved to the Russian page, then?
You point to an interesting fact that these coins are listed under a country which didn't exist when they were minted. Even during soviet times, Russia was not equal to Soviet Union - Russia was part of the Soviet Union. This was literally drilled into us when I started to learn Russian.
Most people will regard the year 1917 as the year in which Russia became USSR (which is historically not correct, as you point out). But 1917 was the year when Russia adopted the Soviet regime. Between 1917 and 1922 the dominant constituant of the USSR to-be minted coins. I would regard this as a transition thing.
Also from the themes on the coin designs, I think they are better at their place under the USSR than under (tsarist) Russia. My opinion: leave them where they are now.
RSFSR was never a country, it was a part of a country. It belongs under USSR no question. If somebody couldn't read Russian, where would they think it's from?
引用する: dptashnyRSFSR was never a country, it was a part of a country.
RSFSR was a country. But the coins minted by RSFSR were put into circulation only in 1924, after the creation of USSR (and at all the territory of USSR).
引用する: imrehAnything from there after 1917 shall be USSR
There's also Armavir (in Krause it is called "Russian Caucasia" - the most stupid and incorrect name that can be imagined). It issued coins in 1918, but has nothing in common with USSR or RSFSR. Also there was Finland: in 1917 it was a part of Russian Republic, but it made its own coins.
引用する: imrehAnything from there after 1917 shall be USSR
There's also Armavir (in Krause it is called "Russian Caucasia" - the most stupid and incorrect name that can be imagined). It issued coins in 1918, but has nothing in common with USSR or RSFSR. Also there was Finland: in 1917 it was a part of Russian Republic, but it made its own coins.
I know
and I cannot convince Numista team to handle those (properly) under either Azerbaycan or Caucasus Khanates or so ...
引用する: dptashnyRSFSR was never a country, it was a part of a country.
RSFSR was a country. But the coins minted by RSFSR were put into circulation only in 1924, after the creation of USSR (and at all the territory of USSR).
Indeed you are right, but it certainly wasn't in 1924. I didn't realize it was called the RSFSR before the Soviet Union, I thought it was called just Russia.
引用する: dptashnyIndeed you are right, but it certainly wasn't in 1924.
The currency reform was made in March 1924. And before that reform all the prices were in millions of roubles because of a very high inflation rate; only banknotes circulated.
引用する: dptashnyI didn't realize it was called the RSFSR before the Soviet Union, I thought it was called just Russia.
- before February 1917 - Russian Empire
- from February till November 1917 - Russian Republic
- from November 1917 till December 1923 - Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic, and lots of other unrecognized small countries created during the Civil War
- from December 1923 - USSR
As of this reply, there appears to be some inconsistency in the catalog related to this topic. Since there is now a section for RFSFR, N#375269 should be moved there, and N#4624 needs to be assigned a currency (maybe Fourth Rouble to match the other coins). Also, when trying to change the currency from any coin in the RFSFR section, the currency switches to “Unknown”, and it isn't clear which of the available options are correct. @Danthann is the referee…please take a look!
As of this reply, there appears to be some inconsistency in the catalog related to this topic. Since there is now a section for RFSFR, N#375269 should be moved there, and N#4624 needs to be assigned a currency (maybe Fourth Rouble to match the other coins). Also, when trying to change the currency from any coin in the RFSFR section, the currency switches to “Unknown”, and it isn't clear which of the available options are correct. @Danthann is the referee…please take a look!
I'm the referee for Elongated Pennies, I'm not sure who is for these requests. @Jarcek ??
Looking to continue completing my collection.
I am currently only trading in the US. Will consider international if swap is good and worth it.
