Incorrect Image on this listing

I believe the image on this listing is actually a contemporary counterfeit.  

There are two well known counterfeits of this double sol series, one being 1755A with long serif on the R in REX, and the second being 1742 H with hollow star privy, wide L, and well defined crowns.  The image on this listing appears to be the 1742 contemporary counterfeit.

I can provide sources for this (i.e. Charlton Standard Catalogue, or article “When Money Talks: Coinage in New France” by Peter Moogk)

Is it possible to update this listing with an image of a genuine version?  I have a few of my own that I could provide pictures, but I'm sure there are much better versions out there.

I also have examples of both counterfeits, so would be happy to create listings for these under “Contemporary Counterfeits”.

Hi cedargrove.  I am the one who submitted that picture.   Would it change your opinion if this exact coin was already certified by PCGS?  

Here's an image of that exact coin sitting in a PCGS certified holder when I bought it from a reputable auction house.  I wasn't about to purchase a coin like this uncertified because of the many counterfeits that are out there, like you mentioned.  I hope this helps.

😂😂 PCGS authenticated a counterfeit! Cedargrove can provide all the proof to TonyCoins and he can sue PCGS and the auction house 👍

It would not be the first time PCGS has certified counterfeits.  

Here is one I just received (not certified, yet listed as counterfeit)

Here are documents from Charlton and Moogk.

cedargrove

It would not be the first time PCGS has certified counterfeits.  

Very true.  I will need time to go through some of my books and double check images.  In the meantime if you want to submit a different picture for this catalog page, feel free to do so.   I could send mine off to NGC (a different TPG) and see what they say.

TonyCoins

cedargrove

It would not be the first time PCGS has certified counterfeits.  

 

Very true.  I will need time to go through some of my books and double check images.  In the meantime if you want to submit a different picture for this catalog page, feel free to do so.   I could send mine off to NGC (a different TPG) and see what they say.

At least it is a contemporary counterfeit, and still holds some value, albeit half. I like the comment about the blue tone on the coin, as although I don’t have enough expertise in these coins to say counterfeit or not, the finish on your coin jumped out at me and I thought it suspicious immediately. I obviously can’t say either way, and I too would have believed the holder (I’m sure you checked ident code) so maybe not the auction houses fault but definitely PCGS if it does turn out to be a counterfeit.

King

At least it is a contemporary counterfeit, and still holds some value, albeit half. I like the comment about the blue tone on the coin, as although I don’t have enough expertise in these coins to say counterfeit or not, the finish on your coin jumped out at me and I thought it suspicious immediately. I obviously can’t say either way, and I too would have believed the holder (I’m sure you checked ident code) so maybe not the auction houses fault but definitely PCGS if it does turn out to be a counterfeit.

I'm not yet convinced it is a counterfeit.  According to Vlack (https://en.numista.com/literature/volume.php?id=3464) on page 49, the 1742-H does appear to have the same crown that my coin has.  There may be some confusion in comparing coins from different Mints from that era.  This particular coin has the “H” Mint Mark which identifies it as being minted from La Rochelle.   I'm always open to the possibility that there may still be other diagnostics which may prove that it is a counterfeit.  If so, I think I would rather have a different TPG take a look at it and get their opinion.

Tony,  

When comparing yours to others, look at the width of your L.  Also, on your version, the images of crowns (both rev and obv) are more well defined on your version versus genuine versions.   Finally the star privy mark is different on the counterfeit.

I agree that these contemporary counterfeits are typically worth more than genuine (about 2-3 times from my experience), but I'm not sure what one would have paid for an MS graded genuine version.

Good luck. Rich

cedargrove

Tony,  

 

When comparing yours to others, look at the width of your L.  Also, on your version, the images of crowns (both rev and obv) are more well defined on your version versus genuine versions.   Finally the star privy mark is different on the counterfeit.

 

I agree that these contemporary counterfeits are typically worth more than genuine (about 2-3 times from my experience), but I'm not sure what one would have paid for an MS graded genuine version.

 

Good luck. Rich

Thanks for the info.  I have contacted the Auction house where I bought it.  They are going to get back to me with next steps.  I would rather that they investigate it and spend their time validating it rather than me spending a lot of my own time.

P.S.  As you referenced Vlack pg 49, there is specific mention that the genuine 1742 H does not have stops/periods before and after the star privy mark, whereas yours does have stops.  I would also suggest yours is identical to image #358 on page 128 in the counterfeit section.  I realize you are having the auction house validate, but just more information in case you need to challenge them. 

cedargrove

P.S.  As you referenced Vlack pg 49, there is specific mention that the genuine 1742 H does not have stops/periods before and after the star privy mark, whereas yours does have stops.  I would also suggest yours is identical to image #358 on page 128 in the counterfeit section.  I realize you are having the auction house validate, but just more information in case you need to challenge them. 

Just as an update, the Auction house got back to me and they said that they want me to send the coin back to them so that they can in turn follow up with PCGS to double check the coin's authenticity.  The auction house said that they can handle it a lot faster than me trying to contact PCGS myself (which I agree).  So I'm going to send the coin back to the auction house.  I don't know how long it will take for them to make a determination.  Thanks for your understanding and feel free to upload your own picture for this catalog entry.

Final Update:   I FedEx'd the coin back to the auction house 2 weeks ago for reevaluation.   The auction house told me that they wanted their own experts to take a look at it.  After looking at the coin they decided to issue me a refund.  Since I have just received a full refund that means that ownership of the coin will now revert back to the auction house.  Therefore I have removed this coin from my inventory on Numista.

That's a good result. Somebody owes Cedargrove a beer at least!

odd job

That's a good result. Somebody owes Cedargrove a beer at least!

No arguments there.   😀

Hey Tony, glad you got it sorted and received a refund.  Rich