Crown denomination no longer showing 5 shillings equivalent

It would seem that some over-zealous catalogue modification has been going on (again!)

N#8475

There is now no reference within the denomination that a silver Crown is equivalent to 5 shillings.

It used to say 1 Crown = 5 Shillings (¼) but now it just says 1 Crown (¼) so what do people have to do? Go and find the data that states there are 20 shillings in a pound and then work out that a quarter of 20 shillings is 5? Is this the new, user-friendly Numista? I think not.

N#52679

You might think that is bad enough but it gets worse. The first Crown coins were gold at around 25mm diameter from the days of Henry VIII and Edward VI but if you look at the denomination on those pages, it just tells you it's a Crown, with no fraction to tell you how many shillings it's worth.

Can we get the shillings equivalent re-instated or is this just another example of the site becoming debased?!

 Perhaps it goes back to August 2023, when the Denomination section 

changed from free-type to drop-down. Saying that, just now made this > 

 [just the first part of the list] 

that is an appalling mess - did nobody check the list before publishing? 

Duplicates or triplicates, mis-spelling, and a choice of whether a single 

description has a 1 in front of it or not. And so on … 😒 

 Now moving down the horrible list is seen SIX times 

    1 Rechenpfennig (0.01) 

 then undecided if there should be a plural or not 

     5 Centimo (0.05) 

     5 Centimos (0.05) 

 choice of how something is written 

      1 Shilling & 6 Pence (0.075) 

      1 Shilling 6 Pence (3/40) 

      10 Kopecks (0.10) 

      10 Kopeks (0.10) 

 appearing FOUR times each 

       2 Jiao (0.2) 

       2 Mithqual (0.2) 

 All of which is still not a quarter of the way down the list. 

Plus the previous reply shows 1 Pfennig 

as being either 1/288 or 1/240 so are both correct - 

or for different places; then extra details needed against each line so 

members know which to choose - again if both are correct. 

ZacUK

Plus the previous reply shows 1 Pfennig 

as being either 1/288 or 1/240 so are both correct - 

or for different places; then extra details needed against each line so 

members know which to choose - again if both are correct. 

Schön DM has listing of Pfennig in 36 different German state currencies. Yes, additional details are needed to understand the full list. But once you select the correct currency only one should be listed.

radrick007

It would seem that some over-zealous catalogue modification has been going on (again!)

 

N#8475

There is now no reference within the denomination that a silver Crown is equivalent to 5 shillings.

It used to say 1 Crown = 5 Shillings (¼) but now it just says 1 Crown (¼) so what do people have to do? Go and find the data that states there are 20 shillings in a pound and then work out that a quarter of 20 shillings is 5? Is this the new, user-friendly Numista? I think not.

 

N#52679

You might think that is bad enough but it gets worse. The first Crown coins were gold at around 25mm diameter from the days of Henry VIII and Edward VI but if you look at the denomination on those pages, it just tells you it's a Crown, with no fraction to tell you how many shillings it's worth.

 

Can we get the shillings equivalent re-instated or is this just another example of the site becoming debased?!

I do not agree with adding this information in the name of denominations. In your examples the denominations are “1 Crown”, and nothing else. The value is displayed in parentheses. I think the contributor can investigate the correct value of the coin, or ask the referee.

But is true that is complex for the contributor. The different changes over time could be added in the line of subdivisions, but this requires more space. I saw this problem some time ago. https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145726.html

ZacUK

 Now moving down the horrible list is seen SIX times 

    1 Rechenpfennig (0.01) 

 

 then undecided if there should be a plural or not 

     5 Centimo (0.05) 

     5 Centimos (0.05) 

 

 choice of how something is written 

      1 Shilling & 6 Pence (0.075) 

      1 Shilling 6 Pence (3/40) 

 

      10 Kopecks (0.10) 

      10 Kopeks (0.10) 

 

 appearing FOUR times each 

       2 Jiao (0.2) 

       2 Mithqual (0.2)

These duplicates and variations (or the mayory) where created when the names were written into text buttons. With the new systen of denominations, creating duplicates and variations is more difficult.

They still are because nobody detected them, or requested their correction in forum https://en.numista.com/forum/tickets.php?type=currency&s=d&o=d&t[]=open&t[]=accepted&t[]=started&t[]=done

 Thanks - I created a new topic which hopefully will get actioned. 

10 Kopeks are probably coming from Norway (N#43124)

I do not agree with adding this information in the name of denominations. In your examples the denominations are “1 Crown”, and nothing else. The value is displayed in parentheses. I think the contributor can investigate the correct value of the coin, or ask the referee.

 

Firstly, I'm thinking more about a reader of the catalogue, rather than a contributor. The information that we, as numismatists, take for granted, should be readily provided for the less initiated. Secondly, for the gold crowns, there is no fraction or value in parentheses, so that is surely a problem?

radrick007

I do not agree with adding this information in the name of denominations. In your examples the denominations are “1 Crown”, and nothing else. The value is displayed in parentheses. I think the contributor can investigate the correct value of the coin, or ask the referee.

 

Firstly, I'm thinking more about a reader of the catalogue, rather than a contributor. The information that we, as numismatists, take for granted, should be readily provided for the less initiated. Secondly, for the gold crowns, there is no fraction or value in parentheses, so that is surely a problem?

In the case of N#8475 the value is

1 Crown (¼)

and subdivisions are displayed here https://en.numista.com/catalogue/royaume-uni-1.html#c_royaume-uni222

Pound sterling (1158-1970)

4 Farthings = 1 Penny • 12 Pence = 1 Shilling • 5 Shillings = 1 Crown • 20 Shillings = 1 Pound

According the guideline https://en.numista.com/help/add-or-modify-a-currency-in-the-catalogue-194.html they should be ordered as

1 Pound = 20 Shillings • 1 Crown = 5 Shillings • 1 Shilling = 12 Pence • 1 Penny = 4 Farthings

Maybe this line is too complex, and could be rewrite as

1 Pound = 4 Crown = 20 Shillings = 240 Pence = 960 Farthings

Now is easier to know that 1 Crown = ¼ Pound = 5 Shillings = 60 Pence = 240 Farthings

In the case of N#52679 the value is

1 Crown

(the numerical value is hidden; I do not know why) and subdivisions https://en.numista.com/catalogue/england-4.html#c_england9077 are the same:

4 Farthings = 1 Penny • 12 Pence = 1 Shilling • 5 Shillings = 1 Crown • 20 Shillings = 1 Pound

Applying the same reasoning, they could be rewrite as

1 Pound = 4 Crown = 20 Shillings = 240 Pence = 960 Farthings

Perhaps in the page the subdivisions or something similar could be added next to the denomination (but not as part of it).

We seem to be missing the (extremely rare) crown of the rose, which was worth 4/6. When that's added, we will have to distiguish properly between the two distinct crowns.