Mark Carney became Canada's acting Prime Minister yesterday (March 14th 2025) during a swearing-in ceremony. He happened to be the former governor of the Bank of Canada (& the Bank of England). Tiff Macklem happened to be the Senior Deputy Governor when Carney was governor (2008-2013). Their signature appears at the end of the Journey series & beginning of the polymer Frontier's series.
Carney was governor during the 2009 financial crises & at the same time paper Journey notes were being phased out & the introduction of polymer was being phased in.
A collector from the Canadian Paper Money Forum posed this question:
will the notes with the 2 signatures (Macklem Carney) become more valuable?
Mark Carney's signature appeared in full prefixes (so millions in some prefixes) but were tough in a few denominations (like the Journey FIVES) & Tiff Macklem + Carney only present in 3 of the 5 Journey (paper) denominations. The last Journey FIVES (HAE to HAL prefixes with M-C signatures) were very tough to find in 2011 until polymer arrived. These notes already have a premium. Will they become even more sought after?
The first HBG prefix (polymer Frontier FIVE pictured above) had a short run of less than 3M & was delayed (release in 2014 or 2015 instead of 2013) in selected regions of Canada. Will these & regular M-C prefixes become more collectible?
I believe the answer will be yes, just like those QEII banknotes after the passing of the Queen in 2022. A dealer here told me that during a small local show, he sold a few more of the QEII notes. Some people like to get them as a souvenir. However, despite saying this, if any, it will only have an effect on collectors in Canada and not to the rest of the world (imo). Furthermore, I also believe this will only be a short demand and will fade away eventually, apart from those rare prefixes you have mentioned. I do collect those Journey series of notes and I believe I have the full series but not those rare prefixes.
If you are selling, perhaps this is a good time to cash them in.😁
Furthermore, I also believe this will only be a short demand and will fade away eventually, apart from those rare prefixes you have mentioned.
You're probably right, could be just a small uptick in collectors' interest. I just thought I would put it out there since another collector was asking on the CDN forum. I was wondering if it would attract World collectors as well (probably unlikely).
I do collect those Journey series of notes and I believe I have the full series but not those rare prefixes.
Re: the last $5.00 M-C tough prefixes
There were 2 or 3 full bricks (1000 notes) of HAF sold on eBay so the Pricing Panel for our Charlton catalogue delayed increasing the Book Value of all the scarce HAF-HAL prefixes for years (HAE went up b/c they knew it was a scarce change-over with approx 400K released). The Charlton editors have a reputation for being conservative so they were in no hurry to acknowledge how tough they were.
Eventually, they raised the values of the HAH & HAL prefixes equally/gradually since these were seldom seen. These notes had just a few more notes reported on the SNDB* as the HAE. They later (& to a lesser degree) raised the remaining prefixes Book Value (HAF, HAG, HAJ & HAK) equally even though no bricks of the later prefixes(HAG, HAK & HAJ) were put up for auction on eBay. I saw plenty of HAK, some HAG but few HAJ put up on eBay. If you're going to buy a tough M-C $5.00 Journey, you'll likely get the HAF prefix as it was the most available (on eBay).
*The SNDB (Serial Number Database) is a collector database where registered members enter their notes's serial numbers hosted by the Canadian Paper Money Forum.
I'd tend to agree that the notes won't become anything special, as the issue volumes are too high.
However, it might attract extra collector interest in the UK, given that Carney was Governor of the BoE, and tended to be quite a high profile figure as Governors go.
Interesting. I am also in the camp of those who believe the desirability of the Carney-signed notes will not increase in any significant way, if at all. Beside the points already made above, something to consider, too, is that the prominence of the signatures had been greatly reduced by this time. Compare for example the bold black signatures on the 1954 Landscape series with the much more discrete signatures on the Journeys series.
Likewise I haven't seen any significant increase in the desirability of the Queen Elizabeth notes since her passing, but perhaps I'm wrong.
In the future I also suspect that the 1935 $20 note depicting her as a princess will lose some of its charm outside Canada. It used to be one of the most popular Canadian notes worldwide since it's the only one anywhere in the world showing her before she became queen. But she is now one of many dead monarchs and the younger generations will not care as much for such a minor historical fact.
Another example is the ease with which one can acquire most Edward VIII one-year-type coins from the British colonies where his name (though not his portrait) was used in obverse legends.
Here is a screenshot of the “Carney era” in my Excel list of Canadian notes. My basic criterion for organizing my notes is by signatures since this is the best chronological indicator. What you don't see here are columns further to the right with links to “extra notes”.
I'm aware of course that not many people would adopt this approach, but we're of course all free to organize our little treasures the way we wish.
I'd tend to agree that the notes won't become anything special, as the issue volumes are too high.
Interesting. I am also in the camp of those who believe the desirability of the Carney-signed notes will not increase in any significant way, if at all.
Thank you both for your input. You both have made me realize that I wasn't very clear in my initial post (& question). Just to be clear, I'm not interested in whether the “Jenkins Carney” signature combo would be collectible. I believe a lot will prefer the polymer “Macklem Carney” $5.00 note (b/c less than 3M found) & they were the first polymer.
I'm interested in whether the limited # of Canadian Journey paper notes issued ($5, $20 & $50) when both PM & an acting Bank of Canada Governor have their signatures on Bank of Canada notes (a first: this has never happened before). Will there be a renewed interest in the last Journey paper notes?
The volume of “Macklem Carney” signature combos issued for the $5.00 paper notes are very low/limited so I'm pretty certain demand will remain strong (even though Charlton hasn't really covered it well). That was the point of this thread.
Here's the history: The “Jenkins Carney” signature combos were on the 2010 $5.00 and replaced by “Macklem Carney” signatures printed in 2011. However, the release of Tiff Macklem (new Sr Gov) & Governor Mark Carney did not occur until 2011 but the notes were delayed & issued closer to the end of 2012/start of 2013 when the new polymer FIVES were introduced. The $20 & $50 polymer were introduced in 2012 & 2011 (no wonder the paper $50 & $20 are so low). So, in actual fact, “Macklem Carney” signed $5.00 notes had low or few numbers released. 2011 Macklem Carney signed Journey $20 notes were present in only 10 prefixes (all relative low reporting on the SNDB). The polymer $20 replaced the paper sooner. Then there were just three $50 prefixes (AHN- AHR -with less than 700 notes reported for each prefix). I, like most of the collectors who responded, doubt there will be a huge dramatic uptick interest in the $20 & $50 but perhaps I'm wrong?
Back to comparing what happened during the transition from paper to polymer (when both M-C signatures appeared briefly).
Here is a screenshot of the Canadian Paper Money Forum's Serial Number Database for 2011 Macklem Carney $5.00:
To read the table see left column labelled “Prefix” and below, you will find HAE &the that they were PRINTED in 2011 & their LOW# would be “9576000” but the most important column is the white column on far right with “30” reported. The HAF prefix show 211 reported (which I'm sure is unrealistically low since collectors likely stopped reporting their finds shortly after polymer appeared).
POLYMER:
Now compare the # reported (on far right column) with the # reported for the 2013 polymer FIVES with the new “Macklem Poloz” signature combo:
You will note that 3,630 “Macklem Poloz” HBG polymer FIVES have been reported (as of today - March 19, 2025). Mark Carney went to the UK to lead the BoE so the Bank of Canada hired Stephen Poloz to take over. By comparison, there have been only 1058 M-C polymer $5.00 notes reported. This may seem a lot but it seemed like everyone was after these when polymer first arrived (between 2013-2014).
The reason that HBH - HBK prefixes have 7000+ reported is b/c everyone was collecting (& reporting) polymer in the hopes of finding the elusive Macklem Carney HBG prefix (which didn't appear in any quantity until 1-2 years later & mostly out west). A typical 10M prefix usually has between 3000 & 3500 notes reported.
BTW: I think its also important to note that if you buy a Charlton guide, you will see in their pricing tables that 10,000,000 were printed for the 2011 HAF-HAL prefixes (& 424,000 for the 2011 HAE). There is no asterisk (or any note) which suggests that while 10,000,000 HAF-HAL Macklem Carney $5.00 notes were printed, it is well known fact (amongst those collectors who sought these prefixes back in 2011) that only minor numbers were actually released. The large majority of remaining 2011 $5.00 notes were likely shredded.
This will also likely be the case for the 2011 $20 & the 2011 $50 Macklem Carney three $50 prefixes. My 2025, 36Ed Charlton shows these 10 $20 prefixes to be priced exactly the same as the much more plentiful (fully released) Jenkins Carney $20 issues.
Thanks for this knowledgeable explanation, Serial_Number_8.
It seems to me that in the end the main factor that will determine the catalogue value of any note will remain its rarity or else its perceived rarity. I don't expect the Carney signature will have any major impact on the value of any notes except if the series/prefix is rare or scarce.
Now I'm wondering whether the many recent changes at the head of the Bank will see a rise in the number of scarce prefixes? This is what it looks like in my checklist:
I always check my banknotes now (especially that I try to pay with cash more than I used to). I mainly try to complete my sets and hope to find errors. I would also save a note if I think the serial number could interest some other collectors, though not “birthday” serial numbers nor “repeaters”.
a) It seems to me that in the end the main factor that will determine the catalogue value of any note will remain its rarity or else its perceived rarity.
b) I don't expect the Carney signature will have any major impact on the value of any notes except if the series/prefix is rare or scarce.
d) Now I'm wondering whether the many recent changes at the head of the Bank will see a rise in the number of scarce prefixes?
a) you're right @Camerinvs - that perceived rarity does indeed play a role in the # of collectors who chase a certain series. For example, many collectors chase the 1954 Devil Face $1.00 banknote even though 180,000,000 were issued. It, the 1937 & 1935 (what a lot of dealers used to call the “sweetheart series” are all very sought after even though the 1935 Series is really the toughest series of the 3. Demand always plays a role in the Book Value (ultimately)
b) I am not referring to the Carney signature per se, but rather the “Macklem Carney” signature combo (BoC governor + PM)
c) Tough prefixes usually occur when there's a change of Sr. Deputy governor or governor & occasionally when they just decide to short change a prefix (like Original Journey $5.00 AOF or the $10 FDY). Scarce prefixes occur whenever a series ends (like with the end of the Original Journey $10 (2003 BEL, BEK & BER without security strips) & the 2011 Upgraded $5 HAE to HAL (when polymer was introduced). There used to be quite a high demand for the last 2011 prefixes mentioned but this died off about 10 years ago (& since Charlton was reluctant to acknowledge their scarcity). Charlton has since remedied this but collector interest hasn't improved. Their pricing panel/editor were also reluctant to acknowledge the scarce polymer “Macklem Carney” or M-C$10 FTH prefix (8.3M printed but only 14 notes reported). BV has risen slightly for this scarce change-over prefix but originally they increased the BV for the "Macklem Poloz" FTH. Charlton does not put a note (that few notes were observed) by this scarce prefix either so many collectors could assume that 8,365,000 M-C $10 FTH notes were actually released (not true).
A screenshot of the 2013 polymer TENS including the FTH notes reported:
Off topic (but related):
I suspect that there will be scarce prefixes at the end of the QEII banknotes when the King Charles versions were introduced (there usually are). The bank officials said that all the QEII versions would be used up but what they say (& what they do) are often 2 different things. Unfortunately, I'm not in England so I won't be able to track the prefix or change over period (which is & has occurred).
