So I today got a collection of 100 worldwide coins for my birthday.
One of them turned out to have been minted by a certain European nation that did some very naughty things in the 1930s and 40s while being run by a bloke with a funny mustache.
Obviously no coin in and of itself is a bad coin, but I was just wondering what others thought about holding coins from this particular nation during this particular era (the coin is dated 1938).
This subject comes up every year or so, usually with Nazi coinage but more recently about coins from IS / ISIS. To me it's all history amd perfectly reasonable to collect. Others will disagree.
This subject comes up every year or so, usually with Nazi coinage but more recently about coins from IS / ISIS. To me it's all history amd perfectly reasonable to collect. Others will disagree.
I didn't even know IS issued coins. That's a bit nuts. I asked mostly because some people might think my having a Nazi coin is a bit suspect. (The same collection had several Soviet Union pieces too which a lot of people in the Western world also see as naughty people…)
The question is WHY you collect a certain item. If you collect Nazi or Soviet coins to celebrate those ideologies, then that might be offensive to some people. If the coins are part of a larger collection, then the coins are legitimate artefacts of history, and we must remember history.
And its not just Nazis and Soviets. Someone somewhere reviles everyone eventually. I wonder what collectors in the Philipines think of Japanese coins? Do Argentine collectors despise English coins? The Falkland war wasnt that long ago! The list goes on and on.
PS: who cares what others think? Unless they're illegal to own (which might be true somewhere?) you dont owe anyone an explanation.
The question is WHY you collect a certain item. If you collect Nazi or Soviet coins to celebrate those ideologies, then that might be offensive to some people. If the coins are part of a larger collection, then the coins are legitimate artefacts of history, and we must remember history.
And its not just Nazis and Soviets. Someone somewhere reviles everyone eventually. I wonder what collectors in the Philipines think of Japanese coins? Do Argentine collectors despise English coins? The Falkland war wasnt that long ago! The list goes on and on.
PS: who cares what others think? Unless they're illegal to own (which might be true somewhere?) you dont owe anyone an explanation.
Me personally, I wasn't even expecting to find the Reichspfennig. It was a collection of 100 worldwide coins I got for my birthday and while that coin was in there, there were also some from the Soviet Union, modern Russia, Italy, Poland, Brazil, the UK, France, South Korea, Greece… the list goes on. So yes, it was just part of a larger collection. I was honestly just curious what people thought about coins from those places and eras.
Very few people will care if 1 out of 100 of your coins are from Nazi Germany. Now, if 100 out of 100 of your coins were, the conversation might be different.
Don’t feel bad about it. for some reasons in USA it seems sensitive ( maybe I’m wrong) about WWII, Eastern Bloc, Cuba and many other topics. Western Europe I would say we moved on. We remember, try to learn from it.
As long as you’re not displaying a Nazi flag at your front door or in your leaving room. your not doing anything wrong Or sending the wrong message.
Public museums and private collections are full of questionable items, that’s history. Not everyone is a psychopath.
Almost every nation did something bad in their history, some more recent than others. To deny the history of it and not collect their coins, is kind of silly. Nazi Germany is one of my collecting interests…
Germany, Third Reich: 1941 Meissen Porcelain Medal (Scheuch-1874iv)
Obv: EINNAHME VON KRETAG - 20. MAI - 1. JUNI 1941; Relief map of Crete between swastika and fasces Rev: SIEG DER FALLSCHIRMJÄGER-LUFTLANDETRUPPEN UND FLIEGER; Aircraft and parachutes landing
The scene portrays one of the greatest aerial invasions in history. Many historians argue that the delay of the Third Reich in Crete played an important role in the invasion of Russia as the heavy winter hindered their chances of conquest.
Colleagues, I really wouldn't involve coins or banknotes in this - they are innocent in this. They are not to blame, they are just a victim.
This is our bad boy and yet we love it in silver or UNC bills in collections.
And he was the weak brew, the soft founder of Communism in the Czechii, modeled after the Soviets.
It was in Cambodia that the Khmer Rouge slowly brought the ideas of communism to perfection. The atrocities and horrors are terrible. But putting the blame on the coin is not really justified.
I collected coins from all over the world between 1900 and 2000, and my collection now includes the coins that could have been in the purses of many evil people, including those with funny moustaches or without hair.
So I don't have a problem managing coins depicting “evil” symbols, but only true coins.
I have a special collection of coins with Che. He was the unthinkable and insufferable, a leftist banker! a sociologist!
I also collect Napoleon. He was personally responsible for a million deaths, mostly of his own people! He also made the metric system global, and brought about a legal code of civil process that is still in force across much of the world.
Who is a villain, who is a champion?
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Almost every nation did something bad in their history, some more recent than others. To deny the history of it and not collect their coins, is kind of silly. Nazi Germany is one of my collecting interests…
Germany, Third Reich: 1941 Meissen Porcelain Medal (Scheuch-1874iv)
Obv: EINNAHME VON KRETAG - 20. MAI - 1. JUNI 1941; Relief map of Crete between swastika and fasces Rev: SIEG DER FALLSCHIRMJÄGER-LUFTLANDETRUPPEN UND FLIEGER; Aircraft and parachutes landing
The scene portrays one of the greatest aerial invasions in history. Many historians argue that the delay of the Third Reich in Crete played an important role in the invasion of Russia as the heavy winter hindered their chances of conquest.
Fascinating. 😲
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
I don't think that someone who specialise in English and United Kingdom pre-decimal issues shall care about such thing:)
Generally speaking yeah that is my specialty. I got this as part of a birthday gift. It's a little different really though since all Britain's worst behaviour is centuries ago, whereas Mr Funny Mustache is still within living memory.
I have a special collection of coins with Che. He was the unthinkable and insufferable, a leftist banker! a sociologist!
I also collect Napoleon. He was personally responsible for a million deaths, mostly of his own people! He also made the metric system global, and brought about a legal code of civil process that is still in force across much of the world.
Who is a villain, who is a champion?
I wouldn't call Napoleon a villain. But he was bloody stupid to invade Russia. :P
Your choice, owning a coin of any nation past or present does not mean you instantly love that nation and what it stood for.
If you only collected coins from places that were entirely ethical and “good”, your coin collection would be tiny to non existent. My personal opinion is I don't like Nazi coins - not because they are Nazi coins, but because their designs were bland and uninspired - you got mostly eagles, swastikas and the occasional portrait of say Hindenburg and one or two Zeppelins.
Plus it was the materials, all the cheaper ones were bronze or Zinc, only 2 and 5 Mark were silver and then only smallish base silver coins. I only have the usual zinc 10 Pfenning type coins.
I mean one of my collections is South African silver and Boer coins, I can't stand Apartheid or Paul Kruger - but his coins were pretty cool and they have value.
Collect what you like - just be cool about it - don't like say things that would incense some people (And you have not - if anything I think you feel guilty about it). A coin is nothing more than a snapshot of the regime that created it. Coins outlast regimes - whether history judges them badly, does not effect the coins. Unless there is a concerted campaign to round and melt every last one - and I doubt that has ever happened in history - coins will always survive in some form.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
Colleagues, I really wouldn't involve coins or banknotes in this - they are innocent in this. They are not to blame, they are just a victim.
This is our bad boy and yet we love it in silver or UNC bills in collections.
And he was the weak brew, the soft founder of Communism in the Czechii, modeled after the Soviets.
His name sounds very Germanic for a Czech/Slovakian I always found - just like the Polish Communist called Beirut - like after the Lebanese city.
I am thinking too for Slovakians more, any coin with Tiso (the fat priest, not Tito of Yugoslavia) on it would be collectible as he issued big silver things. Yet Tiso was evil personified.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I don't think that someone who specialise in English and United Kingdom pre-decimal issues shall care about such thing:)
Generally speaking yeah that is my specialty. I got this as part of a birthday gift. It's a little different really though since all Britain's worst behaviour is centuries ago, whereas Mr Funny Mustache is still within living memory.
Centuries ago? You may want to read about the suppression of the mau-mau rebellion in Kenya in the 1950s-60s or the Bengal family of the 1940s as the result of calculated cold action by the British colonial Govt. there are still survivors alive from that brutal time that bear witness. You may just have to dump the UK coinage in the trash
So I today got a collection of 100 worldwide coins for my birthday.
One of them turned out to have been minted by a certain European nation that did some very naughty things in the 1930s and 40s while being run by a bloke with a funny mustache.
Obviously no coin in and of itself is a bad coin, but I was just wondering what others thought about holding coins from this particular nation during this particular era (the coin is dated 1938).
It's okay to collect historical coins, even those representing terrible ideologies. You are not supporting the issuer's ideology, as they no longer profit from your purchase. As for nations that did ‘very naughty things,’ almost every nation's government at one point or another has does those things to other nations and to its own nation. The collectors on this site focus on collecting historical pieces and set aside the ‘political ramifications’ of those pieces.
I have a special collection of coins with Che. He was the unthinkable and insufferable, a leftist banker! a sociologist!
I also collect Napoleon. He was personally responsible for a million deaths, mostly of his own people! He also made the metric system global, and brought about a legal code of civil process that is still in force across much of the world.
Who is a villain, who is a champion?
I wouldn't call Napoleon a villain. But he was bloody stupid to invade Russia. :P
yes , and what about the bloodbath of Waterloo? why did that happen, if not for the vanity of one man ?
🐓
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
And the hundreds of thousands who died in his failed invasion of Russia. Many in the Grand Armee, were not French, not free and were forced into that army.
The general consensus of History here in the Anglophone world at least, is that Napoleon was a villan, madman, genocidal, selfish, arrogant - yet we still saw him as a great general. But I do know some French people still revere him as something great.
The best thing he did in the Anglosphere, is that since his demise, the 1000 year plus rivalry between France and England has ended. Since 1816 relations have generally been good, except for a few skirmishes and fallings out. The period 1066 - 1815 was almost non stop war and rivalry between England and France, but since then its peace and since 1904 we have had the Entente Cordiale, which has held up.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
And how to deal with American coins? If you take into consideration their criminal-democraty-bringing-crimes in Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia, Lybia to name a few only.
And how to deal with American coins? If you take into consideration their criminal-democraty-bringing-crimes in Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia, Lybia to name a few only.
And how to deal with American coins? If you take into consideration their criminal-democraty-bringing-crimes in Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia, Lybia to name a few only.
Wow, isn't it very thin ice you're skating on?
Ivan
I do not like skating, but I like to tell the truth even when it is not a pleasant truth…. But I stop this statement here, once it is political and politics are to dirty to air them on a nice coin-platform like Numista.
And the hundreds of thousands who died in his failed invasion of Russia. Many in the Grand Armee, were not French, not free and were forced into that army.
The general consensus of History here in the Anglophone world at least, is that Napoleon was a villan, madman, genocidal, selfish, arrogant - yet we still saw him as a great general. But I do know some French people still revere him as something great.
The best thing he did in the Anglosphere, is that since his demise, the 1000 year plus rivalry between France and England has ended. Since 1816 relations have generally been good, except for a few skirmishes and fallings out. The period 1066 - 1815 was almost non stop war and rivalry between England and France, but since then its peace and since 1904 we have had the Entente Cordiale, which has held up.
Now the English and the French just insult each other's cuisine and languages. ;-)
Now the English and the French just insult each other's cuisine and languages. ;-)
Speaking as an Englishman, it is true we do. We have our own comedy version of the French language called Franglaise and frog's legs and snails are not really to our taste.
But on the whole we love France and the French people. It's the top foreign holiday destination for Brits and with the 80th anniversary of D-Day next month, there are a lot of people planning to visit. I guess this brings the thread back to where it started.
Now the English and the French just insult each other's cuisine and languages. ;-)
Speaking as an Englishman, it is true we do. We have our own comedy version of the French language called Franglaise and frog's legs and snails are not really to our taste.
But on the whole we love France and the French people. It's the top foreign holiday destination for Brits and with the 80th anniversary of D-Day next month, there are a lot of people planning to visit. I guess this brings the thread back to where it started.
I'm an Englishman myself. And I do have some French coins in my collection. All pre-Euro, some date back to the 1850s.
I think it very much depends on the intent of the collector.
If you're collecting Nazi-era coins because you're a WWII history buff, absolutely fine.
If you're collecting them because you agree with the ideology & want things from that era with the toothbrush moustache ruiner's portrait on it, then you've got problems.
Having a few of those coins dotted into your collection as curios, also fine. They're pretty common anyway, especially as a lot of allied troops brought them back as souvenirs.
I apply that philosophy across everything, provided it is historical. If you own it as an interest or oddity, you're okay. If you own it because of what it represents, bit weird or worse…
The question is WHY you collect a certain item. If you collect Nazi or Soviet coins to celebrate those ideologies, then that might be offensive to some people. If the coins are part of a larger collection, then the coins are legitimate artefacts of history, and we must remember history.
And its not just Nazis and Soviets. Someone somewhere reviles everyone eventually. I wonder what collectors in the Philipines think of Japanese coins? Do Argentine collectors despise English coins? The Falkland war wasnt that long ago! The list goes on and on.
PS: who cares what others think? Unless they're illegal to own (which might be true somewhere?) you dont owe anyone an explanation.
Me personally, I wasn't even expecting to find the Reichspfennig. It was a collection of 100 worldwide coins I got for my birthday and while that coin was in there, there were also some from the Soviet Union, modern Russia, Italy, Poland, Brazil, the UK, France, South Korea, Greece… the list goes on. So yes, it was just part of a larger collection. I was honestly just curious what people thought about coins from those places and eras.
Iirc ISIS coins are illegal to own in the USA because the law says it promotes terrorism because buying the coins would support ISIS financially. Not sure about anywhere else though.
I don't have any 2 pfennings from the ‘two Germanies’ era from 1950-89, but I have one from 1995, and a couple of 1 and 5 pfennings from West Germany. One or two from East Germany too I believe.
I think it very much depends on the intent of the collector.
If you're collecting Nazi-era coins because you're a WWII history buff, absolutely fine.
If you're collecting them because you agree with the ideology & want things from that era with the toothbrush moustache ruiner's portrait on it, then you've got problems.
Having a few of those coins dotted into your collection as curios, also fine. They're pretty common anyway, especially as a lot of allied troops brought them back as souvenirs.
I apply that philosophy across everything, provided it is historical. If you own it as an interest or oddity, you're okay. If you own it because of what it represents, bit weird or worse…
That's what I figured. It's an oddity for me because until now I'd never owned a German coin from earlier than about 1949.
I don't even collect Germany, but seem to have coins mostly from West Germany (Up to 5 Mark), the East Germany, Nazis (Only 5 and 10 Pfg), Weimar (5 to 50 Rentenpfennig), some Notgeld coins, Empire coins from 1 Pfennige to 1 Mark and a 5 Mark of Prussia from 1903, plus some earlier German states, like Prussia, Nassau, Saxe Coburg etc and one bizarre copper coin called a Dikker from 1606.
These photos are a sample of all my German coins, a mix of reichs and groups.
I love coins. Especially silver, gold and anything really old.
Member of the Royal Numismatic Society of New Zealand and the Auckland Numismatic Society
I don't even collect Germany, but seem to have coins mostly from West Germany (Up to 5 Mark), the East Germany, Nazis (Only 5 and 10 Pfg), Weimar (5 to 50 Rentenpfennig), some Notgeld coins, Empire coins from 1 Pfennige to 1 Mark and a 5 Mark of Prussia from 1903, plus some earlier German states, like Prussia, Nassau, Saxe Coburg etc and one bizarre copper coin called a Dikker from 1606.
These photos are a sample of all my German coins, a mix of reichs and groups.
That's a neat little collection. In my younger days I didn't collect coins so much as hoarded them, so I amassed a large number of ones I didn't really know about including coins from pretty much every modern country on earth. Both Germanies were among them (it was the 80s and early 90s so most of the ones I got were pre-reunification). That hoard was badly denuded in 1991 (and is now in another country) but I still have a bunch of German pieces from about 1949 onwards.
Edit: made a new post in the Coin information board to show off my German pieces.
Germany, Third Reich: 1939A 1 Reichspfenning (KM#89)
Obv: Eagle above swastika within wreath Rev: Denomination, oak leaves below
Later issues were re-minted in Zinc due to the war effort. Graded MS64 BN by NGC.
Germany, Third Reich: 1944B 1 Reichspfenning Zinc (KM#97)
Obv: Eagle above swastika within wreath Rev: Denomination, oak leaves below
Re-minted in Zinc since valuable metals such as Copper was needed for the war effort. See here for the earlier Bronze version of the Reichspfenning. Graded MS65 by PCGS.
And he was the weak brew, the soft founder of Communism in the Czechii, modeled after the Soviets.
And he was the weak brew, the soft founder of Communism in the Czechii, modeled after the Soviets.
