I recently purchased a coin from Gibraltar Christmas set from the year 1990 which has the die mark BB on the reverse. I can not find this die mark in the Numista catalogue for some reason. Does anyone have some info about this coin variety, please?
Would help to know which coin/set you're asking about. PM does (did, RIP) sometimes use die letters for coins sold in sets different from those used on coins not sold in sets.
That's exactly what I found and no BB die mark there. So this coin is missing from the website. I can try to add it but I am not good at all with all the details which are required in the form. 😕😕😕
I added the yearline BB Proof as I guess this refers to the Diamond Finish (Pobjoy name for proof coins).
Not sure if AA Proof exist (althought 22 members have it) or this AA was added later to inital line for proof version… for Isle of Man coins, normal versions are AA, AB, AC… and Proof are BB or BA… so it could be similar with Gibraltar. Need to ask Admins to check the history of the changes on Proof yearlines.
Mirek, do you have the photos of BB version? If so, could you register your photos as examples?
I added the yearline BB Proof as I guess this refers to the Diamond Finish (Pobjoy name for proof coins).
Not sure if AA Proof exist (althought 22 members have it) or this AA was added later to inital line for proof version… for Isle of Man coins, normal versions are AA, AB, AC… and Proof are BB or BA… so it could be similar with Gibraltar. Need to ask Admins to check the history of the changes on Proof yearlines.
This from SCWC and the photos I posted should answer that.
I added the yearline BB Proof as I guess this refers to the Diamond Finish (Pobjoy name for proof coins).
Not sure if AA Proof exist (althought 22 members have it) or this AA was added later to inital line for proof version… for Isle of Man coins, normal versions are AA, AB, AC… and Proof are BB or BA… so it could be similar with Gibraltar. Need to ask Admins to check the history of the changes on Proof yearlines.
This from SCWC and the photos I posted should answer that.
Yes, this is what I suspected… i guess it was two lines, one AA and second Proof (maybe without indicated letters) and when new die letters pictures appreared, someone added also AA to Proof line instead of BB… but I have no access to check history of modificationnfor each yearlines. @Xavier, are you able to do it? If this is the case, the Proof lines should be merged.
Yes, I know, Diamond Finish is rather proof-like, Proof finish was used only for Silver, Gold and Platinum version of 50p Christmas coins. However, I remeber that this topic was discussed on forum and it was advised to use simple “proof” instead of individual naming used by each mint. Anyway, the Diamond Finish coins in perfect condition looks like the Proof ones.
I added the yearline BB Proof as I guess this refers to the Diamond Finish (Pobjoy name for proof coins).
Not sure if AA Proof exist (althought 22 members have it) or this AA was added later to inital line for proof version… for Isle of Man coins, normal versions are AA, AB, AC… and Proof are BB or BA… so it could be similar with Gibraltar. Need to ask Admins to check the history of the changes on Proof yearlines.
This from SCWC and the photos I posted should answer that.
Yes, this is what I suspected… i guess it was two lines, one AA and second Proof (maybe without indicated letters) and when new die letters pictures appreared, someone added also AA to Proof line instead of BB… but I have no access to check history of modificationnfor each yearlines. @Xavier, are you able to do it? If this is the case, the Proof lines should be merged.
I found this on Wayback Machine from 2014:
So circulation was die letters AA and Proof had none. They were probably added when somebody was convinced their circulation coin (AA) was really a Proof and submitted a request to add the die letters to the proof.
Yes, thanks for screenshot. This could be the case also for other years… some months ago (before I become referee for IOM/Gibraltar) I added a lot of missing pages for precious metal versions (based on Encklopedia of Gibaltar Coins 1988-1999 - without Die letters info), but I didn't look at the details of Cu-Ni… I will verify this in coming weeks but need to finish first with IOM Christmas coins (I already verified up to year 1995 and added all known die letters).
.. it was advised to use simple “proof” instead of individual naming used by each mint. Anyway, the Diamond Finish coins in perfect condition looks like the Proof ones.
Diamond finished coins should never be described as proof coins, that would be highly misleading thing for a catalogue to do. We need to accurately describe, not make things up because it can look similar to some people.
If you don't want to describe them as Diamond finish (I would agree some people don't understand what that means) then feel free to describe them as BU. Pobjoy proof coins are struck four times, look far better, are of higher quality and cost considerably more.
We already have enough confused people who don't know what a proof is, lets not add to the confusion by mis-labelling.
.. it was advised to use simple “proof” instead of individual naming used by each mint. Anyway, the Diamond Finish coins in perfect condition looks like the Proof ones.
Diamond finished coins should never be described as proof coins, that would be highly misleading thing for a catalogue to do. We need to accurately describe, not make things up because it can look similar to some people.
If you don't want to describe them as Diamond finish (I would agree some people don't understand what that means) then feel free to describe them as BU. Pobjoy proof coins are struck four times, look far better, are of higher quality and cost considerably more.
We already have enough confused people who don't know what a proof is, lets not add to the confusion by mis-labelling.
How can this be settled if we are still using the word ‘Proof’ to describe a coin that is in Pobjoy's own words, not proof quality.
Diamond finish is mostly a marketing term to attempt to describe their BU coins as better than other BU coins because they polished the die before striking it once. But even they differentiate between Proof coins that are struck four times.
How can this be settled if we are still using the word ‘Proof’ to describe a coin that is in Pobjoy's own words, not proof quality.
Diamond finish is mostly a marketing term to attempt to describe their BU coins as better than other BU coins because they polished the die before striking it once. But even they differentiate between Proof coins that are struck four times.
It was settled. Diamond Finish is not Proof or Proof-like. It became unsettled like many things on Numista by not being officially documented anywhere. After enough time people forget or mis-remember and start over.
