Bidding maddness

I just had bidding war with 6 other people on ebay, there was only minutes before the lot timer ends and it was madness! I lost😁, lucky me because I had completely forgotten the coins value, we were more then 100$ above the value! Anyone else had this happen to them?

I have sometimes bid over market value when, for example, we're in the 30+ bids in the final minute. It's a great pleasure to win such auctions. But I wouldn't bid even near twice the value. Perhaps 25-30% above, with the hope of having it for less than my maximum bid.

I always bid in the last seconds, too; never before. 

When I see an item go way over estimate, my hypothesis is that it's two “alpha males” fighting over the same item and willing to prove to the other and the rest of the world that he's loaded with money. About a year ago, a lot of merchant scrip mostly from the 1970s and 80s, with an estimate of $140 (if I remember correctly), went for $2100, and sure enough I checked the bidding history and it was just two bidders after the estimate was surpassed.

I evidently either need to change my bidding style or increase my estimated values.  I am always coming in 2nd 🤣 

I usually look at the NGC online world price guide, and try not to bid past about 70% of that.  Those numbers are usually full retail and then some.   Unless it is something I really like, then I may bump it up a bit at the very end.

The last time I won an auction lot was December 2020, since then it’s been madness.

Over the course of that time I’ve seen many different types of bidders, from the gigachads that try to assert dominance by bidding against each other to the ones who somehow calculate the exact amount I bid and then add like 10p on the top to win.

I actually won a nice morgan yesterday. Somehow everyone missed it, i got it for 100, but it has around 300 value.

The value of a coin is what you have just paid for it, NOT what you look up somewhere.

tdziemia

The value of a coin is what you have just paid for it, NOT what you look up somewhere.

 

 

I would say the value is what I can sell it for,  the coin I won often goes at auction for over 300, and so, the coin has a value of 300.

stancollects

tdziemia

The value of a coin is what you have just paid for it, NOT what you look up somewhere.

I would say the value is what I can sell it for,  the coin I won often goes at auction for over 300, and so, the coin has a value of 300.

Yes. To take an extreme example, coins are not like paintings or sculptures by artists recognized as great. If a Renoir or Picasso goes up for sale, or a Rodin, an estimate is given, but the final sale may diverge widely from the estimate since each item is unique or produced in very small runs. You would have a much better idea of the approximate value of a Picasso print since they were usually produced in the hundreds or in the low thousands.

Coins are usually produced in the thousands or millions. There are tens of millions of collectors who often start very young by collecting coins from their father's or mother's change. You can't do that with a Monet or a Giacometti. In fact, you have to belong to the “1%” to enter the select club of people who collect “great” art, so market values are much less predictable. If you want a painting, and it finally comes up for sale for the first time in 32 years, and you are filthy rich and want to impress the select club of billionaires to which you belong, you wont care about the estimate. 

If you paid $25 for a VF 1939S Lincoln small cent… well… guess what… you were had, and hopefully you are a new collector who will soon learn from your mistake, because a VF 1939s Lincoln small cent is not worth anything near $25. How do we know? Because there are millions of collectors of US small cents, and there were 52,070,000 1939S small cents struck, with survival rates in the hundreds of thousands. So, there is a market value for the 1939S Lincoln cent based on survival rates and demand. There are many, many 1939S cents on the market.

Catalogues of coins, banknotes, stamps, etc. are updated periodically, often yearly, with revised price lists. If there is no approximate market value to such items, why all this waste of time and effort? Why? Because people rely on them to be well informed before a trade, sale, or purchase ─ including those among us who don't believe in market values…

Demand ─ This is why early Islamic coins (for example) are comparatively low mintage but of low market value as well. I remember a Mr. Kovalski who was in his late 70s I suppose, back in the 1990s, and he may have been a numismatist or maybe just a coin collector, because at a small gathering he told me that Islamic coins were greatly undervalued, and he expected they could eventually gain their “real” market value. No. This won't happen. And it won't happen because demand will remain low. Very few people can read Islamic coins. They are unattractive to most people. Not only can't they read them, there is virtually no iconography on them. The value of early Islamic coins varies more widely than for Lincoln cents, but an Islamic coin whose market value is at about $55 is simply not worth $355 and you would be foolish to pay that much for it.

So, I'm really surprised that so many collectors repeat the fake little rule that “a coin is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it”. This is useless and nobody in his right mind would put up his valuable coins for sale with this “rule” in mind. You have valuable 17th-century Portuguese coins? Do you think you'll get a better price if you submit them for sale with an international auction house or in a Port Moresby market? If you just follow the “rule”, you shouldn't care where you put it up for sale… 

If I am interested in something, I generally put a snipe on it a few days in advance.

Happy new year and celebrate it properly.

      I regularly go to the web local auction, I have a few favorite sellers who I don't even know where they get a lot of old coins from.

Example tonight at 11 o'clock:

   -Just an example today and I still have about 8 favorite sellers

The exchange rate of the crown rises for us only to give an idea of ​​the price of coins at today's exchange rate:

1000 CZK is 44, 31 dollars

   When the principle of the auction was to bid until the last second, I often profited with e-experiences on the web, however, they changed the rules and the seller can set a floating rule - and even when ending, the time can be set up by 10 seconds every time 10 times in a row ,, terrible rule and especially when two rams are sitting opposite each other,,

* I have my own rule, often and almost always I don't know the price of coins, I just guess , and I have my maximum bid amount that I am willing to go to- it is due to the fact that I have limited funds "out-of-pocket monthly - disabled war veteran" and I do not want to draw more and disrupt the family budget.

I just won't give more even if the coin was extra rare and its value represented a miracle (I'm not that determined to be very rich)😁🤑

It was Christmas and I, too, because I hadn't been angry all year, found presents under the tree (in our place, Jesus wears it) why am i writing this Because he really, really drastically overpaid the coins he flew to put under the tree- ,, it can be seen that he does not understand the prices and also ran into a dishonest seller in a brick-and-mortar numismatics shop,,

It's hard to point out, it's a gift and it's true that we don't look a gift horse in the teeth. Under the tree: printer, coin album and silver medieval coins.

But the clip has a rubberized price tag from the store on the right-But the detail does not immediately escape the eye of the numismatist,, Terrible,,

What number or currency is the red number I don't know?

N#41601  1250Kč  which is $55.38 I wouldn't pay more than 20 and I know that I will always buy it for 15 Or am i wrong ?

2 pfenig Salzburg 1570 CZK - which is 41.43 $ ( also outrageous price) N#72588

Leopold I.,,Opole,, CZK 495 --22 $ ( just too much) N#47291

And Württemberg-Oels, Duchy -  Gröschl   --- 375,-  Kč  -16,62 $  ( I wouldn't give more than 10 even if it was UNC)

it's terrible how sellers can raise prices sometimes, Yes, I understand that the buyer wants a lower price and the seller wants a higher price, but in my opinion it should have reasonable limits. (of course baby Jesus Christ, Santa Claus, elves and others who carry gifts may not know the value and often fall under the spell of Christmas) 

And those of you who know how to do it, at least a little bit, don't overcharge the prices and be fair.

Ivan

Hello Ivan, you are totally right. Those prices are outrageous. I recently picked up the Ferdinand II Kreuzer for around 13 dollars. Still, very nice coins, I hope you enjoy them

Wertinas

Hello Ivan, you are totally right. Those prices are outrageous. I recently picked up the Ferdinand II Kreuzer for around 13 dollars. Still, very nice coins, I hope you enjoy them

Thanks for the rating, but a strange coincidence- Happy celebrations - and colleagues forgive me for stealing this thread.

No one with collectors around the world has it? 

Why?

Because we don't even have it at NUMISTA in this variant - and if someone had it, they would have pointed it out in the past.

Please, the "mintmaster" mark is on the coin at the Wrocław mint:

  "mintmaster"- Hanz  Riedel , and he had a helper ,, Jan Zeslerem,,

Here is the explanation:

The mark minted in this way is only between 1627-30 (see teeth under initials) I didn't even look further (what was the cleanliness of the workplace, alcohol and the names of entire shifts and so on)

Our website does not recognize this option, so I will have to send a request to Brno (distance - secondary district):

N#41601

1627 we don't have the HR option yet.

and the coin will also have to go into an ultrasonic washer to get rid of the green poison (the microscope rather showed diseases):

and there are places where there is more green.

Why doesn't anyone have it??

Ahoj Ivan

The last few replies show very well the difference between approximate market value and price actually paid. A market value is always approximate and subject to change, but it is a good indicator of what one should approximately pay. 

If ever Canada drops the “nickel” and shifts to a circulating 50¢ coin, will this affect the value of the older 50¢ coins upward because of rekindled interest? Who knows… Currently, many are assuming that the death of the queen affects the value of her banknotes upwards (UK, Commonwealth, and colonial banknotes), but I doubt this will be a long-term trend. Sellers will keep adjusting their prices according to demand and catalogues and online lists will respond to the changes in their value adjustments.

In North America, a place not to buy coins if you're not knowledgeable about current market values is the antiques store. Antique store owners often have a tray of mixed coins at outrageous prices. I remember a seller who had a Canadian Edward VII large cent clumsily holed in the middle with a nail which she was selling for $15 ─ it was actually worth no more than the price of the metal. She was obviously offended when I pointed out that it was basically worthless and not even worth a dollar ─ “I can't pay my rent here if I sell my items at a dollar”. She had no idea whatsoever that coins are not like WW1 memorabilia or 18th-century German or French perfume bottles in terms of regular updates of market values. In other words, she was not trying to fool potential buyers, she was just putting an approximate value on items (i.e. coins) she had no knowledge about.

You often see small kiosk-holders in antiques markets who seem to prey on inexperienced buyers. They rarely underprice their items. It's almost always overpricing ─including outrageous overgrading─ either because they are dishonest or else because they found a price list online and find the values on the right side (XF / AU / Unc) more appealing than on the left side (G / VG)…

Camerinvs

 

A) If ever Canada drops the “nickel” and shifts to a circulating 50¢ coin, will this affect the value of the older 50¢ coins upward because of rekindled interest? Who knows… Currently, many are assuming that the death of the queen affects the value of her banknotes upwards (UK, Commonwealth, and colonial banknotes), but I doubt this will be a long-term trend. ..

 

B) In North America, a place not to buy coins if you're not knowledgeable about current market values is the antiques store. Antique store owners often have a tray of mixed coins at outrageous prices. I remember a seller who had a Canadian Edward VII large cent clumsily holed in the middle with a nail which she was selling for $15 ─ it was actually worth no more than the price of the metal. She was obviously offended when I pointed out that it was basically worthless and not even worth a dollar ─ “I can't pay my rent here if I sell my items at a dollar”. She had no idea whatsoever that coins are not like WW1 memorabilia or 18th-century German or French perfume bottles in terms of regular updates of market values. In other words, she was not trying to fool potential buyers, she was just putting an approximate value on items (i.e. coins) she had no knowledge about.

 

C) You often see small kiosk-holders in antiques markets who seem to prey on inexperienced buyers. They rarely underprice their items. It's almost always overpricing ─including outrageous overgrading─ 

I have enjoyed reading your remarks Camerinvs because there is indeed a huge difference between BV (Book Value), Fair Market Value (FMV or what we all wish to pay for our note/coin for) & True Market Value (TMV: what most of us end up paying).  The last concept is ultimately what a pricing panel try to figure out re: specific varieties but they sometimes try to balance between FMV & TMV.  I have tried to address these various expectations on my NC site (Money Market page), though I don't cover coins. 

Re:

A) It is very true that collectors are often fickle and go for what they perceive will be valuable in the future. Your example is perfect b/c it illustrates how trendy the next wave (or cycle) of popularity can be. Often people think BV is entirely dependent on scarcity when in fact it is also more wrapped up in terms of demand.  Perhaps more long term collectors are less rash (to seek the next big thing) & prone to this trend but many like to think they know what the next curve/trend will be (but we're often hitting blindly at the next pinata hoping we get mucho sweets).

B) I agree that most antique shops are brutal places to find a good deal. No way you'll get FMV.  Most of these owners (& the same can be said for Flea markets) have no idea what an item is worth and often speculate rather than check catalogues. I have seen many posts on several forums from an irate buyer suddenly (& rightfully) disappointed with their recent purchase. I think that this type of speculation is very unkind to our hobby b/c so many unscrupulous sellers take advantage of newbies. In fact, I believe you are much more likely NOT to get ripped off at coin shows b/c 99% dealers want you to come back & avoid burning newbies.  That is one of the reasons I have become a big supporter of shows & community coin clubs (or regional organizations which support collectors).  Most shows are run by upstanding dealers/organizations. 

C) I have also seen this too often on eBay which is sad b/c these online sales hit an even larger market & several collectors become poor graders (or poor collectors) b/c they often rely on others to guide them to a “fair/good deal” on a coin (or note) rather than learning to discern for him/herself what is a good buy vs a “so-so” (dodgy) buy.  Several times I have felt like saying, “you have done well provided you sell it back in another 10 or 15 years,”  which is not a very good sign one has done well!   

Good Morning to all my fellow coincollectors and a happy New Year to you all. Imho it is sometimes unavoidble to overbid if the coin is extremely rare. In my 50+ years of collecting coins it happens to me only a few times. Sometimes you need a litle Luck I guess too. For 2023 I hope to add  2 or 3 countries to my list. That would be great on the other hand I realise I'm searching the most difficult countries there are.  I'm glad I took the time for relocating my coins from catawiki / lastdodo to this platform. By far a more serious and informative surrounding. I hope you understand my English since I'm dutch. Kind regards to all of you.

Thanks very much, Serial_Number_8, for you detailed and informed reply. And a special thanks for the link to your money market page. 

And to reply to dutch: Yes, if a coin is extremely rare and extremely sought after, the “book value” (BV) becomes less relevant. I insist on the “desirability” factor. Something can be known in only ten examples worldwide, but if nobody cares, it will not be valuable just because it's rare. 

Only 8000 Newfoundland dime were struck in 1885, but it can be obtained for less than $200 now. Can you imagine how much any circulating British penny or halfpenny, or any Lincoln cent, would be worth now if any year had been issued at only 8000? There were 484,000 Lincoln 1909 S VDB cents issued and in G it starts at well over US $800… 484,000: this is 60+ times the number of Newfoundland 1885 dimes…

EDIT – I agree that coin shows are a much better place to buy coins than antique stores. The one thing which one needs to be most careful about is those sellers who systematically overgrade their coins. Also, a seller specializing in Canadian and American coins (for example) may overprice 4th-century Roman coins if he knows nothing about them. On the other hand, he may not know anything about 5th-century small bronze coins and sell some rarities at a bargain price. Caveat emptor.

Only bid to your Max never let your heart rule your head but the exception to this is if you really want the object and then the value is irrelevant and you can afford it bid either until its yours or give up .

 If the item is a coin and your winning bid is twice its value but you like it and it wont reach the price that you won it for in your life time who cares its not about the value its about collecting and your own inner self.

What is like to bid on Ebay. It's chaos! 🌪️

I seem to be the only one around here who thinks that, in spite of a number of annoying things, eBay is great! (I say this as a buyer; I have never tried to sell anything on eBay.) The one great improvement I would like to see on eBay is a button to allow me to block crooks. 

Now it's a little like television or YouTube: there is a lot of great content out there, but you have to sift through a lot of garbage to get to it… A good example is YT videos on early Christianity. You can learn a lot that is academic level stuff ─especially that academics are more and more frequently accepting invitations to discuss specific topics─ but you have to use your critical eye to quickly dismiss what I would call sensationalist garbage and amateurish apologetics and counter-apologetics.

In addition, even academic books have to be assessed carefully. Many years ago, a PhD woman published her PhD thesis in Greek poetry. One of the published reviews dismissed the whole argument because she had not taken into account an important feature of Greek poetry. The unfortunate author actually understood that she ─and her thesis supervisor─ had been incompetent. She bought back all the remaining books to trash/burn them.

Recently I was talking with someone about yet another problem in academic writing: plagiarism (!). You just need to get familiar with how the site VroniPlag is organized to see how important the problem is. I think you can get the gist of it even if you don't read German. You see that quite a few of the PhD holders have their degree crossed over. This is because their universities have investigated and withdrawn their degrees.

All this to say that, as all of you certainly know, becoming an expert in your collecting or research field of interest is key…

Frankly, I don't bid on coins on Ebay for many reasons including these bidding frenzies that go far beyond the coins actual value. Over the years I have bought a few coins on Ebay if I really wanted a coin but always go to the "buy it now" or “make best offer” area. I don't mind paying a premium for a coin I want but I refuse to substantially overpay for a coin no matter how bad I want it.

I almost always place a single “maximum” bid in the last few seconds, which sometimes is way below the winning bid. So, I am in full control and bid only what I want to bid.

I keep track of items that are poorly described by sellers. This is a great way to win with very low ─and sometimes ridiculously low─ bids. One of my best such wins was a Trinidad FD-countermarked halfpenny that was not even described as counterstamped or countermarked. I was the only bidder and got it for $6. This is one of many, many examples.

Also, sellers who have their auctions end at odd times of the week ─e.g. Monday morning at 9:30 (!)─ often pay the price… and I may win with a very low maximum bid if I happen to be around at closing time.

There were two sellers whom I have mentioned before, though not by name. They shipped only inside Canada even when their auctions included good quality US material. One of them, on top of it, had bad photos which would have turned potential buyers away. Well, I won scarce buffalo nickels at between a third and fourth of their market value. This is just one of many examples.

My knowledge in some areas means that I often know a lot more than the seller. Some say one should inform the seller when he puts up for auction an item that is worth a lot more than he thinks. Well… No. If he doesn't know what he's doing, it means that he got that coin or note at a ridiculously price from an unknowing collector (or partner of a deceased collector). The famous rule Caveat emptor! applies to both sides of the transaction. If anyone should have been warned, it's that person who sold the collection.

Wise words Camerinvs. I have a lot to learn

Camerinvs

If anyone should have been warned, it's that person who sold the collection.

In most cases the estate of a deceased person.

Also bid on 1 item (slightly lower grade) when 3 or more of the same item is being offered.  I have sometimes won Gem UNC 65's for fairly low bids after several 66's or higher (of same note/coin) was offered.  Many collectors skip examining all the notes (trust the grade) & bid on the highest # rather than actually examine the note/coin. They may have decided “no more 64 & 65 grades.” I have also seen AU55/58 that look as good or better than some UNC64's.  It doesn't happen often but it does happen (with the inconsistency amongst TPG's) & collectors often back off thinking the item as being too common (on multiple listings of same item). Most auction houses avoid offering multiples of the same item but sometimes it's unavoidable.  The big auction houses sometimes have their auctions occur the same week (which also floods the market & translates into opportunity).

I almost always place a single “maximum” bid in the last few seconds, which sometimes is way below the winning bid.

-This is called "sniping" & it annoyed the heck out of me (after many losses) & is mostly on platforms like eBay.  Once I started sniping items successfully I loved it.  It does work but you should be prepared to try it often (lose on many items) before you get the hang of it.  It's also important to have confidence in what you're bidding on & to figure out what you're ready to part with (stick with that figure). The item often ends 2 or 3X the low bid you see just seconds before the auction ends.  Try it a few times to get the hang of it. Remember, if you won it & paid too much, you probably didn't stick to your limit. Time to take a break (reset).

World events can also shake consumer confidence in the collectibles market.  This has been Warren Buffet's trick for most of his investing life on the stock market (buy when everyone else is nervous).    If you only buy when everyone else is buying, you might want to change it up a little. 

Indeed, sniping, and I have been a sniper from Day 1, i.e. when I joined eBay in September 2015. The only rule is to bid before the deadline, after that, everyone has his/her own strategy. I don't even add a “watching” tag on any item because it increases its desirability. When I see something with many “watchers” I know the final bidding war might be brutal. I may raise my maximum bid a bit if I'm still interested.

I have a friend who dislikes the practice very much. It's probably because he started building his collection on Forum Ancient Coins, where every new bid extends the bidding period. Fair enough. That's a different set of rules and as long as their is a strong oversighting body that sees to the respect of the rules, I have no problem with it.

Here is a famous example of "sniping" in Olympic sport: München 1972 800m.

I also “read the room” the best I can. If there are 15 bids on an item already, it makes a difference whether the total number of bidders is 2 or 3 vs. 9 or 10. But you have to understand how maximum bidding works and what eBay means when they placed an “automatic bid” for one of the bidders. All this seems to be a lot of work to some people, but it just isn't to me (and to many others). I know a number of people who just don't understand how eBay works. This means that they are at a disadvantage when they compete for an item. 

Oh! And new bidders (i.e. those with very low number in the feedback column) are often the most unpredictable. 

Also, yes, when several of the same item are offered, it may well be an opportunity to win one of them at a bargain price. Ideally, the seller places the highest graded one first, but it's not always what s/he does, so you may have to come up with your own strategy. Several months ago, a seller had four or five Bank of Montreal 1923 $20 notes that he put up for auction all at the same time. They were all approximately the same grade and I happened to win the last one. Because of the frenzy for banknotes during and right after the pandemic, I won it just slightly below what I considered then the market value, but that was a bargain anyway, in my opinion, at a time when notes were almost always going for above book value.

One of the sellers I have already mentioned anonymously several times put a large collection of early Newfoundland coins for auction several years ago. I couldn't believe that he did not split it up into several instalments, with many duplicates of the same items (e.g. some of the “better dates” of the Victorian 20¢ series). I won for barely $20 each a number of items that were worth between $60─$110 each.

Finally, a strategy should not be dropped if it failed one time. If it works four out of five times, it means it works. This is the case with judging a coin to be better than it seems based on bad pictures. In my estimate, 80% of the time, the coin is actually better, so I bid accordingly. The Buffalo nickels I mentioned earlier were in that category. It helped that I already knew that seller and could assess his bad pics on previous experience.

Camerinvs

 

I also “read the room” the best I can. 

I do the same including this little “tell”.

If a bidder has a high “positive feedback” number (I use 2000+) you can be almost entirely sure he/she is flipping that coin for profit.  I've been on eBay for about 7 years and have a rating of 167, I'm a collector.

I estimate the “flippers” bid at about 50% of what he/she intends to sell this item for, to a collector.  Probably already has a customer in mind.  Also, these “flippers” bid once and only once.

True, and I actually learned this from you when we discussed this behaviour in another thread about a year ago.

There is another type of 2000+ bidder: the one who puts an early minimal bid on many many items in the hope that once in a wile an item will go unnoticed. Such bidders are generally not a problem once bids reach a certain level since they're not going to show up and increase their bid.

I was downloading a few 1970s-1980s Almanzar catalogues this afternoon and noticed this advice to bidders:

With respect to banknotes this could have been written yesterday…

Interesting note,  thank you for sharing!

Nowadays I just stop bidding, just prefer to visit local markets and try to get the coins I need for an acceptable price.

Dutchgalego

Interesting note,  thank you for sharing!

 

Nowadays I just stop bidding, just prefer to visit local markets and try to get the coins I need for an acceptable price.

 

This might interest you I won this Elizabeth I Sixpence mm Rose on eBay for the Exorbitant price of £9.50 with a postal cost of £1.35 so total cost £10.85. It is full flange though the Portrait is just visible the Revers is quite good Actual Value well it doesn't relay Matter getting a mm Rose QEI sixpence that hasn't been Clipped or paying a vast Fortune for one that has a good portrait its a bargain.  

Nicely done!

It is always nice to get something at a pleasing price on ebay. 

Peter M. Graham

Camerinvs

 

I also “read the room” the best I can. 

I do the same including this little “tell”.

 

If a bidder has a high “positive feedback” number (I use 2000+) you can be almost entirely sure he/she is flipping that coin for profit.  I've been on eBay for about 7 years and have a rating of 167, I'm a collector.

 

I estimate the “flippers” bid at about 50% of what he/she intends to sell this item for, to a collector.  Probably already has a customer in mind.  Also, these “flippers” bid once and only once.

Or …. Like me, they have been a member on eBay a reaally long time  (17 years !) 😀 I started collecting baseball cards, eventually sold my collection, then moved to making models during Covid, then started coin collecting last year ! My +VE feedback is now over 5000 !  

I usually avoid auctions, and prefer a buy it now or best offer, as mentioned a few times by others already. When I do bid, I usually bid my maximum up front, and if I win, I win, if i don’t, I don’t. No bidding war !  I am rarely around when an auction ends, due to work commitments. 
 

set your limits and stick to them 👍

Coincoll22

set your limits and stick to them 👍

The way to go.

I usually avoid auctions, and prefer a buy it now or best offer, as mentioned a few times by others already. When I do bid, I usually bid my maximum up front, and if I win, I win, if i don’t, I don’t. No bidding war !

-The BIN option can definitely work in one's favour at times & especially when you know the seller, the item's price range (& what the market is like). If the dealer/seller grades conservatively, it's typically a "win-win."  I sometimes use eBay as a BV gauge too, so if I'm bidding on something I will find the lowest BIN & set my max to that limit (or less depending on the buyer's premium & grade).  I still consider planet ebay somewhat inflated since sellers are factoring in seller's/Paypal fees which is understandable. I try to factor in as much as possible (to determine max bid) since some sellers have reasonable shipping while others demand a king's ransom, misattribute, etc. 

One shouldn't just be shopping on eBay either.  I have discovered a few excellent coin shops which grade conservatively & continue to throw in the odd perk for me.  I just added another 2 notes to a RADAR Serial Numbers thread today. The 2nd N.Z near solid $1.00 was sold to me at well below what I would have paid on eBay b/c the seller knew me (& wants me back).  The grades of several of the notes I bought from this seller were far better than I expected as well (the near solid looks GEM 67).

And don't forget to swap & buy from collectors you know (if you wish to avoid bidding madness).  I swapped & sold many notes when I started collecting more in earnest about 22 years ago (when I first started listing notes on eBay & everything was auction style & only a few BIN). The prices were the best i could do b/c I wanted the relationship to continue.

Without stress.

,, Shown applies,, - Colleagues, for me "the market has gone crazy"-or is it just a temporary insanity. What was valid no longer applies , and prices climb to enormous heights, especially for silver.

On Thursday I had the opportunity to auction similar coins that I am going to auction today at the same dealer, ancient Greece or Rome.

The silver drachmas have been raised to such heights that I am not willing to accept them-I don't have the brain set for it ,,Settings,,

A similar one escaped me 10 times on Thursday:

   about 10 similar drachm tonight ,They are still going to this one today and if it doesn't work I will at least take a bronze from Judea from the year "O"        

finally i won bronze 15 pcs unidentified (again) on thursday, and again I will be struggling for months to find out what of the remaining 14 so that I don't have to throw them into the box, the dustbin of history, but recognize 15 coins ancient Greece -200-100BC , price of $1.38 for one,

for 15 coins almost free.  I'll have them by 11am tomorrow.

          Won- Antique, convolute of 15 pieces as shown in the photos.

Total weight 61.75g      

However, I want silver and am not willing to overpay.

,, It seems to me that the market is somehow overrun with money and many people are storing currency in antique coins as a hedge against inflation,( ???)

Ivan   

Serial_Number_8

I usually avoid auctions, and prefer a buy it now or best offer, as mentioned a few times by others already. When I do bid, I usually bid my maximum up front, and if I win, I win, if i don’t, I don’t. No bidding war !

-The BIN option can definitely work in one's favour at times & especially when you know the seller, the item's price range (& what the market is like). If the dealer/seller grades conservatively, it's typically a "win-win."  I sometimes use eBay as a BV gauge too, so if I'm bidding on something I will find the lowest BIN & set my max to that limit (or less depending on the buyer's premium & grade).  I still consider planet ebay somewhat inflated since sellers are factoring in seller's/Paypal fees which is understandable. I try to factor in as much as possible (to determine max bid) since some sellers have reasonable shipping while others demand a king's ransom, misattribute, etc. 

 

One shouldn't just be shopping on eBay either.  I have discovered a few excellent coin shops which grade conservatively & continue to throw in the odd perk for me.  I just added another 2 notes to a RADAR Serial Numbers thread today. The 2nd N.Z near solid $1.00 was sold to me at well below what I would have paid on eBay b/c the seller knew me (& wants me back).  The grades of several of the notes I bought from this seller were far better than I expected as well (the near solid looks GEM 67).

 

And don't forget to swap & buy from collectors you know (if you wish to avoid bidding madness).  I swapped & sold many notes when I started collecting more in earnest about 22 years ago (when I first started listing notes on eBay & everything was auction style & only a few BIN). The prices were the best i could do b/c I wanted the relationship to continue.

It also helps that I am not after pristine, perfect coins ….. in fact, the more worn, the better, as long as I can make out a date. I like the history and patina ….. so I can go for lots that a lot of other more serious bidders don’t even look at …..  and I agree that postage is a big factor …. I avoid rip off postage sellers like the plague ….. 

Ian P

Dutchgalego

Interesting note,  thank you for sharing!

 

Nowadays I just stop bidding, just prefer to visit local markets and try to get the coins I need for an acceptable price.

 

This might interest you I won this Elizabeth I Sixpence mm Rose on eBay for the Exorbitant price of £9.50 with a postal cost of £1.35 so total cost £10.85. It is full flange though the Portrait is just visible the Revers is quite good Actual Value well it doesn't relay Matter getting a mm Rose QEI sixpence that hasn't been Clipped or paying a vast Fortune for one that has a good portrait its a bargain.  

 

 

 

A good finding for a good price. Thank you for sharing!

Let's not forget that there are occasionally some very nice bargains to be had in these auctions!

Camerinvs

stancollect

I would say the value is what I can sell it for,  

Yes. To take an extreme example, coins are not like paintings or sculptures by artists recognized as great. If a Renoir or Picasso goes up for sale, or a Rodin, an estimate is given, but the final sale may diverge widely from the estimate since each item is unique or produced in very small runs. You would have a much better idea of the approximate value of a Picasso print since they were usually produced in the hundreds or in the low thousands.

 

Coins are usually produced in the thousands or millions. There are tens of millions of collectors who often start very young by collecting coins from their father's or mother's change. You can't do that with a Monet or a Giacometti. In fact, you have to belong to the “1%” to enter the select club of people who collect “great” art, so market values are much less predictable. If you want a painting, and it finally comes up for sale for the first time in 32 years, and you are filthy rich and want to impress the select club of billionaires to which you belong, you wont care about the estimate. 

 

If you paid $25 for a VF 1939S Lincoln small cent… well… guess what… you were had, and hopefully you are a new collector who will soon learn from your mistake, because a VF 1939s Lincoln small cent is not worth anything near $25. How do we know? Because there are millions of collectors of US small cents, and there were 52,070,000 1939S small cents struck, with survival rates in the hundreds of thousands. So, there is a market value for the 1939S Lincoln cent based on survival rates and demand. There are many, many 1939S cents on the market.

 

Catalogues of coins, banknotes, stamps, etc. are updated periodically, often yearly, with revised price lists. If there is no approximate market value to such items, why all this waste of time and effort? Why? Because people rely on them to be well informed before a trade, sale, or purchase ─ including those among us who don't believe in market values…

 

Demand ─ This is why early Islamic coins (for example) are comparatively low mintage but of low market value as well. I remember a Mr. Kovalski who was in his late 70s I suppose, back in the 1990s, and he may have been a numismatist or maybe just a coin collector, because at a small gathering he told me that Islamic coins were greatly undervalued, and he expected they could eventually gain their “real” market value. No. This won't happen. And it won't happen because demand will remain low. Very few people can read Islamic coins. They are unattractive to most people. Not only can't they read them, there is virtually no iconography on them. The value of early Islamic coins varies more widely than for Lincoln cents, but an Islamic coin whose market value is at about $55 is simply not worth $355 and you would be foolish to pay that much for it.

 

So, I'm really surprised that so many collectors repeat the fake little rule that “a coin is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it”. This is useless and nobody in his right mind would put up his valuable coins for sale with this “rule” in mind. You have valuable 17th-century Portuguese coins? Do you think you'll get a better price if you submit them for sale with an international auction house or in a Port Moresby market? If you just follow the “rule”, you shouldn't care where you put it up for sale… 

yes, I am glad someone has expounded on this! Well put Camerinvs! Something is not really worth what someone else is willing to pay one time. It’s worth what you can sell it for consistently. 

redsmithstudios

yes, I am glad someone has expounded on this! Well put Camerinvs! Something is not really worth what someone else is willing to pay one time. It’s worth what you can sell it for consistently. 

+1

This, of course, doesn't rule out that items can progressively increase or decrease in value. My Canadian Coin News relies on arrows ↑ ↓ to show upward and downward trends. Normally, every issue updates one of the sections, while the rest is left untouched, so progressively prices are adjusted over the year. This is how Michael Findlay (a prominent coin dealer) introduces the latest trends:

This issue focuses on 20- and 25-cent coins with only a few changes confined to several Victorian dates.
Two year-dates, 1872H and 1874H, are the most common dates for the early issues of this series and would be considered “type” coins. The other dates also considered type coins are 1899, 1900 and 1901. As I have felt the type dates are a bit undervalued, especially in entry-level grades, I have increased the valuations for the 1872H and 1874H 25-cent coins in Good through Extremely Fine. I have also raised the valuations for the other three dates, 1899-1901, in Good through Fine.

The line for 1874H looks like this for grades from G-4 to MS-63:

1874H … 14 ↑ … 28 ↑ … 45 ↑ … 80 ↑ … 200 ↑ … 350 … 800 … 1,000 … 2,000

Those values are indicative. If you pay $35 for a problem-free 1874H 25¢ in “F” grade, you made a good purchase since the trend is about $45. If you paid $100… well… I guess you were willing to pay that much…